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Thread: Signs of Ni

  1. #191
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    INTJs are always changing the problem space, either by redefining the problem, or understanding that the problem is something else entirely. This goes along with what Uumlau wrote about staying current with changing reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    This currently known version of reality is the key here. INTPs only accept one version of reality, but this version of reality is unknown. INTJs on the other hand claim to know the reality, even tho its just their version of the reality, not the real reality. Reality doesent change, only the perception of it does. The perception of reality isnt same as the reality, even tho INTJs see it as so and make the judgments(and the big picture based on them) based on the perception of reality and see it as the real reality.
    This is the crux of the matter. It reminds me of the static vs. dynamic interpretation of Ti/Ne vs. Ni/Te that was discussed a few pages ago. INTJs (or anyone) can see that as a practical matter, reality is a constantly moving target: yesterday it rained, but today is sunny; my computer was fine for months but now won't boot; the boss promised me a raise, but then funding was cut. Solutions must take these changes of condition into account. INTPs on the other hand see a reality encompassing all possibilities at once: it can rain, or be sunny, or even snow or hail; my computer can fail in may other ways; organizational funding is governed by various influences, some of which are predictable.

    INTP then might look for an all-encompassing solution that will covere every possibility. The problem is it might require too much time or money, or be too cumbersome ever to be implemented. INTJ will realize that a useful solution need not include all cases. We are contingency planners, so our solutions usually do include some built-in flexibility (we plan a picnic, and specify a rain date), but we probably are not going to cover all the possibilities that the INTP ideal solution will. We will come up with something that can actually be used, though.

    In asking whether INTP or INTJ solutions are better, there is a third route: combining them. I work with a number of INTPs, and my SO is one as well. Sometimes it feels as though when we work together well, there is nothing we can't accomplish.
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  2. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    In asking whether INTP or INTJ solutions are better, there is a third route: combining them. I work with a number of INTPs, and my SO is one as well. Sometimes it feels as though when we work together well, there is nothing we can't accomplish.
    *Ding Ding Ding*

    Mmhmm.

  3. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    It reminds me of the static vs. dynamic interpretation of Ti/Ne vs. Ni/Te that was discussed a few pages ago.
    Another nitpick (getting enough evidence to start pondering on this one now): that was more about Ni/Se and Ne/Si, I think.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    INTJs (or anyone) can see that as a practical matter, reality is a constantly moving target...
    *feels the Si-users cringe at that sentence*

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    INTP then might look for an all-encompassing solution that will covere every possibility. The problem is it might require too much time or money, or be too cumbersome ever to be implemented. INTJ will realize that a useful solution need not include all cases. We are contingency planners, so our solutions usually do include some built-in flexibility (we plan a picnic, and specify a rain date), but we probably are not going to cover all the possibilities that the INTP ideal solution will. We will come up with something that can actually be used, though.
    It's also impossible to actually come up with that all-encompassing solution.

    It's futile.

    I'm not saying that INTPs' efforts can't bear fruit -- they can.

    But the belief that one can discover an all-encompassing theory of everything is ridiculous.

    It's inherently doomed to fail.

    The best one could do is delude themselves that their theory actually encompasses everything.

  4. #194
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Another nitpick (getting enough evidence to start pondering on this one now): that was more about Ni/Se and Ne/Si, I think.



    *feels the Si-users cringe at that sentence*



    It's also impossible to actually come up with that all-encompassing solution.

    It's futile.

    I'm not saying that INTPs' efforts can't bear fruit -- they can.

    But the belief that one can discover an all-encompassing theory of everything is ridiculous.

    It's inherently doomed to fail.

    The best one could do is delude themselves that their theory actually encompasses everything.
    That is just more off-topic INTP bashing on a thread that's called "signs of Ni."
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
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  5. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    That is just more off-topic INTP bashing on a thread that's called "signs of Ni."
    Activity suspiciously resembling bashing has taken place, and every comment is subjective. However, comparison and contrast, even in areas of supposed weakness, are relevant to teasing apart the differences, mechanics, and teleology.

    There's enough political correctness in the world shutting down honest discussion in the name of not offending anyone. Let's leave typology alone.

  6. #196
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mia_infp View Post
    Activity suspiciously resembling bashing has taken place, and every comment is subjective. However, comparison and contrast, even in areas of supposed weakness, are relevant to teasing apart the differences, mechanics, and teleology.

    There's enough political correctness in the world shutting down honest discussion in the name of not offending anyone. Let's leave typology alone.
    Topical?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    That is just more off-topic INTP bashing on a thread that's called "signs of Ni."
    *I feel another nitpick coming... it's usually by the third piece of evidence that I start seeing the similarities and differences... let's see... well, perhaps this is not a nitpick... or perhaps INTJ nitpicking is just different than INTPs... I seem to be take issue with what the person says, and correct them... that wouldn't, on the surface seem that different from what the INTPs do... ok, but I guess mine are glaringly obvious problems with what the person said, not unnecessary derails getting in the way of furthering productive discussion... I guess that would be the difference... I suppose not all Ti-nitpicking need be this way, either, though... so the issue seems to be that INTPs can nitpick in a Ti way and INTJs can nitpick in Te way, but not all calling out of these issues is necessarily nitpicking; it only becomes nitpicking when it's problematic... so what makes each types' nitpicking problematic?*

    Perhaps an example would be demonstrative:

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Another nitpick (getting enough evidence to start pondering on this one now): that was more about Ni/Se and Ne/Si, I think.
    That wasn't off-topic INTP bashing.

    So you're just plain wrong on this one.

    That wouldn't qualify as a useless nitpick.

    You made a claim that was false, and I pointed it out.

    Would be pretty clear and obvious to any rational person reading this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    *feels the Si-users cringe at that sentence*
    Nah, that's not INTP bashing, either.

    That's just pointing something out in a lighthearted manner.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    It's also impossible to actually come up with that all-encompassing solution.

    It's futile.

    I'm not saying that INTPs' efforts can't bear fruit -- they can.

    But the belief that one can discover an all-encompassing theory of everything is ridiculous.

    It's inherently doomed to fail.

    The best one could do is delude themselves that their theory actually encompasses everything.
    And I wouldn't exactly call that INTP-bashing, either.

    That is a factual claim, not an attack.

    You could say, "no, you're wrong."

    To which I'd say, "whatever floats your boat, buddy... "

    It is inherently and objectively doomed to fail, imo, and, as such, is futile.

    So, not only was I not "bashing" INTPs, but merely making a factual claim that I genuinely believe to be true (and don't believe that this is just an unfounded belief, but believe it's a belief strongly rooted in reality), but I actually threw a bone to INTPs (and one that I genuinely believe) and said that their efforts can indeed bear fruit.

    In other words, stop whining.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mia_infp View Post
    ...and every comment is subjective.
    Get your Fi-dom relativistic nonsense out of here.

    If the comment is in accord with reality, it is objective.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Topical?
    This thread has been derailed since this post:
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=1#post1810486

  9. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    In asking whether INTP or INTJ solutions are better, there is a third route: combining them. I work with a number of INTPs, and my SO is one as well. Sometimes it feels as though when we work together well, there is nothing we can't accomplish.
    Thank God for a post that actually has some substance to it. Hats off to you.

    We can take a somewhat probabilistic sense of the world, realizing that reality changes and that some aspects are easily predictable and others are not. Treating every possibility as equally likely and/or valid isn't particularly smart; neither is focusing on one possibility without any contingency planning whatsoever.

    Usually, we have limited time and resources and must concentrate on the most likely possibilities and the best 'bangs for the buck' before we delve deeply into others, if we ever hope to deliver something practical, workable, and applicable to the real world.

    I thought that line of reasoning was close to common sense.

  10. #200
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    This thread has been derailed since this post:
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=1#post1810486
    Unsurprisingly, made by an INTP. One of the few things INTPs do better than INTJs, right?

    Edit: Seriously now, you mentioned some relevant stuff about INTPs, but the fact that you only focus on our bad side (and seem to ignore the ones INTJs have) compromises the impartiality and reliability of your points.
    Most of Coriolis' and ummlau's comments were neutral and balanced, but you are basically filtering what is bad about the INTP way and what is a supposedly supreme perfection about the INTJ way.


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