User Tag List

First 6141516171826 Last

Results 151 to 160 of 400

Thread: Signs of Ni

  1. #151
    Tempbanned
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/so
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    And, Poki, are you drunk?

  2. #152
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    MBTI
    IxTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ti
    Posts
    13,991

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Everyone's a critic.
    No, in fact #3 is so far in advance of my knowledge that I may as well just accept it.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  3. #153
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    STP
    Posts
    10,499

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    And, Poki, are you drunk?
    No, bored
    Im out, its been fun

  4. #154
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    STP
    Posts
    10,499

    Default

    I was gonna post constructively, but got bored after my first post
    Im out, its been fun

  5. #155
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    intp
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx
    Posts
    7,823

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Now this is not a bad assessment. For most people, though, it doesn't take years to see that there is more than a lovely, charming, and gracious exterior.


    What does it mean for something work but only at a superficial level? What is the alternative -- working at some deeper level? Either something works, or it does not. If it just gives the appearance of doing something but does not actually do it, then it does not work. (I'm sure this is a brazenly Te perspective, but then in INTJ fashion, I am not used to half-baked results.)
    I challenge you to figure it out, if you cant, ill put this Fe shame thing on you that zararuska is talking about
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

    Read

  6. #156
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    8,263

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by _Poki_ View Post
    a Real solution vs Constant rigging
    I think rigging is an ISTP thing (or maybe SP). Whatever is good enough to move on.

    What it has to do with ni I don't know. A little situational Ni maybe, with Se taking priority. Does Ni always have to deal with prognosticating and longterm goals?

  7. #157
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    953 sp/so
    Posts
    5,708

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    What does it mean for something work but only at a superficial level? What is the alternative -- working at some deeper level? Either something works, or it does not. If it just gives the appearance of doing something but does not actually do it, then it does not work. (I'm sure this is a brazenly Te perspective, but then in INTJ fashion, I am not used to half-baked results.)
    It's the classic expert-itis, to which both INTJs and INTPs are suspect: that one's own personal way of thinking is deep and insightful, and the others' way is superficial.

    Both types have blind spots, which the other sees as superficial. Ni-Te in operation can look superficial, but it isn't. Ti-Ne in operation can look flaky, but it isn't.

    More specifically, Ni-Te is habitually paying attention to externalities that INTPs tend to (but not always) ignore. Those boundary conditions can change on the fly, which not only changes the set of potential solutions to a problem, but also determines which questions are the right questions to ask. But Ni-Te, in so doing, is somewhat stuck to those externalities, while Ti-Ne is quite capable of covering large classes of general possibilities. So INTPs will see the INTJ solution as correct, insofar as it goes, but it's incomplete, it doesn't take into account all the other possibilities. But the INTPs usually don't see how a mild change of boundary conditions can totally alter the problem space. Ni is always changing problem spaces, trying to figure out the right question to ask. INTPs (and this is more Si-based) tend to stay in a single (very well defined) problem space.

    In short, INTJs tend toward solutions that correlate very well with (the currently know version of) reality, and is habitually trying to stay current with reality (Se, Te). This can result in inconsistent and ad-hoc solutions, especially if one isn't paying close attention. ITNPs tend toward solutions that correlate very well with a more generalized perception of reality (Ne, Si), and as such those solutions tend to be self-consistent with each other. This can result in solutions that are generally applicable, but don't really fit with a particular current state of affairs.

    Which solution style is better? It comes down to which model of reality is more apt, and how well the specific individual is paying attention to it, AND how well the individual understands the flaws of one's particular approach and adapt for them.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  8. #158
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    intp
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx
    Posts
    7,823

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    More specifically, Ni-Te is habitually paying attention to externalities that INTPs tend to (but not always) ignore.
    INTJs tend to be really selective with paying attention to external realities, if they cant instantly see the relevance of something, they judge it as irrelevant and wont pay any attention to it. This can speed up the process, but if this ignored thing has more fundamental and not so obvious relevance, it can lead to big mistakes. What makes this worse, is that if the theory is built on ignoring something significant(something that would wreck the theory), its hard to go back and change the whole theory because of one consistency, especially since it already makes sense(due to ignoring this important thing) and adding this thing to the theory would make the current theory to not make sense -> adding it doesent make sense. INTJs are afterall building an Ni image from the singular(but multiple) Te things.
    INTJ analysis goes from defining what something is based on external realities(Te) and combining these definitions by abstracting them(removing what isnt seen as necessary) in order to figure out the relationships between these things to form an big picture view of the things seen as being connected.
    INTPs on the other hand perceive the big picture and connections between things in the external world and figuring out what it is that connects these things to understand the big picture in deep level. Naturally there can be mistakes with this approach also, but its usually about missing something in the external world big picture. While looking for what it is that connects these things there is an abstraction process going on and connections that doesent make logical sense are reviewed extra carefully and disgarded if it makes more logical sense for the big picture(and the combining unknown factor, which is being analyzed).

    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    But the INTPs usually don't see how a mild change of boundary conditions can totally alter the problem space. Ni is always changing problem spaces, trying to figure out the right question to ask. INTPs (and this is more Si-based) tend to stay in a single (very well defined) problem space.
    I dont agree with this at all. For INTP the problem space is different to INTJ. For INTP the solution may be something outside the problem space, while INTJ tends to look solution only from the problem. So there is no need to change the problem space in order to find an solution outside of it or to switch the problem spaces. You need to remember that INTJs perceive external world via Se, while INTPs use Ne for that.

    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    In short, INTJs tend toward solutions that correlate very well with (the currently know version of) reality, and is habitually trying to stay current with reality (Se, Te).
    This currently known version of reality is the key here. INTPs only accept one version of reality, but this version of reality is unknown. INTJs on the other hand claim to know the reality, even tho its just their version of the reality, not the real reality. Reality doesent change, only the perception of it does. The perception of reality isnt same as the reality, even tho INTJs see it as so and make the judgments(and the big picture based on them) based on the perception of reality and see it as the real reality. This is why INTJ approach seems ridiculously superficial to INTP. This superficial reality really is the perception of what is and analysis what it is(in other words SeTe), INTPs can instantly see that this isnt the reality if it doesent make logical sense compared to the core issue seen by NeTi. However, when it does, its most likely something the INTP didnt think before, at least from that perspective and can be useful.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

    Read

  9. #159
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    9,128

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Yeah, the INTP isn't wrong in my example, just coming at things from a very different angle.
    Well, logically, the INTP is wrong when he claims it is 'not true' that the switch turns the light on, because it does; that it also turns it off does not make the on-part wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    INTJ: The switch turns the light on.
    INTP: That's not true.
    The INTP claims: "The switch turns the light on" is not true. But, "'The switch turns the light on' is not true" is false, therefore the INTP is wrong.

  10. #160
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    STP
    Posts
    10,499

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Well, logically, the INTP is wrong when he claims it is 'not true' that the switch turns the light on, because it does; that it also turns it off does not make the on-part wrong.


    The INTP claims: "The switch turns the light on" is not true. But, "'The switch turns the light on' is not true" is false, therefore the INTP is wrong.
    If the light is on then the switch does not turn the light on. Therefore that is not a universal truth in all situations. The switch turns the light on or off is more true. I still think its anal when the situation is so obvious as a light switch that the whole argument is just considered anal retentive. The INTP is more stuck on teaching universal truths based on whats said instead of what the other person understands. At the end of the day its all a matter of how far pulled into or out of the situation you are.

    The thing is that an INTJ may disregard what was said as important and not even pay attention...hence not learn something outside of the current situation. While the INTP may not realize INTJs know everything that the INTP said and just sees them as anal retentive because there really is no reason as its already known and understood and at this point the arguing is over wording not understanding.
    Im out, its been fun

Similar Threads

  1. Is anger a sign of righteousness?
    By coberst in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 03-25-2010, 08:34 AM
  2. Literary Examples of Ni
    By Domino in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 44
    Last Post: 12-29-2009, 11:21 AM
  3. [Ni] The pain of Ni in a male INFJ
    By nzAShadow in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 63
    Last Post: 11-10-2009, 07:10 PM
  4. Tell-Tale Signs of the Types
    By RansomedbyFire in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 125
    Last Post: 09-11-2008, 11:30 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO