User Tag List

First 7891011 Last

Results 81 to 90 of 156

  1. #81
    Senior Member Owfin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    MBTI
    ISTJ
    Enneagram
    6w7 sp/sx
    Socionics
    N/A
    Posts
    261

    Default

    I just don't like this assumption that Ss don't adapt to Ns. It makes it seem like being an S is easy and oh, anybody can be an S, but being an intuitive is hard.
    I don't see any invisible treasure chests.

    • MBTI? ISTJ
    • Enneagram? 6 with a strong 7 wing
    • Brony? Yes
    • Stereotypes?

  2. #82
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    3,938

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Owfin View Post
    I just don't like this assumption that Ss don't adapt to Ns. It makes it seem like being an S is easy and oh, anybody can be an S, but being an intuitive is hard.
    I agree. I think both sides can/should adapt, and do. It may overall be more of an S world than an N world, but that can also depend on what type of environments, jobs, etc you are moving in.
    Female
    INFJ
    Enneagram 6w5 sp/sx


    I DOORSLAMMING

  3. #83
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    937 so/sx
    Posts
    6,226

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Owfin View Post
    I just don't like this assumption that Ss don't adapt to Ns. It makes it seem like being an S is easy and oh, anybody can be an S, but being an intuitive is hard.
    I agree but, not to be controversial here, but no, S's in my experience do not flex as much to adapt to non-sensory style communication. When I talk, it bores most S's to tears; S's don't hide that fact and if they do, it is out of tedious politeness that I can sense anyway. The worst part, for me as an NF doing the talking, is oh how I know when I am boring the audience. So, it's generally just simpler to stick with the communication preferences of who I am talking to or go all out and be entertaining. I've done it for years and years; I know I adapt more. It doesn't bother me though.

    As OA said above, N-style convos are not "better" or "deeper" - as an N, I simply know that my natural style of communicating is not met with widespread interest, acceptance (or patience for that matter.) Even on topics that are solid and concrete.

    For example, there are tons of things I love talking to my ESTJ hubs about, but he's not patient with anything speculative or theoretical. To his credit, he can give me about 10 minutes talking about typology before he can't take listening anymore. And my hubs is a very dynamic, intelligent man. He simply doesn't share my communication preferences or even topical interests.

    Even yesterday, we were shopping to buy him new shoes and tangentially there was a boat show in the mall (I know! lol). There were these great pontoon boats and I start looking at them, and imagining having one, and ooh we could make it the party boat and what if we built a little house on the lot my parent's offered us to buy at ____ Lake and we could float the party boat there ..... but he can't stand these forays into "what if" - he just doesn't "go" in a tangential way, those things are not part of the plan. But that's how I think. It's just different. To me, I could make that real. To him, it only sounds fanciful.

    My INTJ daughter has far more patience with the speculative as she can use it as fuel to shape the future.

    My ISTJ Dad has more patience with detail, period.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  4. #84
    Senior Member SubtleFighter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/so
    Posts
    260

    Default

    Not to say that sensors aren't capable of bending to the intuitive style--I've seen them do it--or that I think their lives are automatically easy. Anyone's life can suck, no matter what their personality type.

    But if you put 4 people together, and 3 of them share the same communication style while the other has the opposite style, chances are the fourth person will have to adapt more than the 3 people. This is supposedly the ratio of sensors to intuitives in the general population, so intuitives will adapt more. Another aspect of MBTI that fits this is introversion/extraversion. Introverts have to adapt more often than extraverts since there's a lot less of them.
    "Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear."--Ambrose Redmoon

    . . . metamorphosing . . .

  5. #85
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    STP
    Posts
    10,501

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SubtleFighter View Post
    Not to say that sensors aren't capable of bending to the intuitive style--I've seen them do it--or that I think their lives are automatically easy. Anyone's life can suck, no matter what their personality type.

    But if you put 4 people together, and 3 of them share the same communication style while the other has the opposite style, chances are the fourth person will have to adapt more than the 3 people. This is supposedly the ratio of sensors to intuitives in the general population, so intuitives will adapt more. Another aspect of MBTI that fits this is introversion/extraversion. Introverts have to adapt more often than extraverts since there's a lot less of them.
    Or become a loner
    Im out, its been fun

  6. #86
    Senior Member Owfin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    MBTI
    ISTJ
    Enneagram
    6w7 sp/sx
    Socionics
    N/A
    Posts
    261

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SubtleFighter View Post
    Not to say that sensors aren't capable of bending to the intuitive style--I've seen them do it--or that I think their lives are automatically easy. Anyone's life can suck, no matter what their personality type.

    But if you put 4 people together, and 3 of them share the same communication style while the other has the opposite style, chances are the fourth person will have to adapt more than the 3 people. This is supposedly the ratio of sensors to intuitives in the general population, so intuitives will adapt more. Another aspect of MBTI that fits this is introversion/extraversion. Introverts have to adapt more often than extraverts since there's a lot less of them.
    Ah, I see that. It's more with one on one communication where this is said that bothers me. Not overall how much they need to, but I see stuff like "I adapt myself to sensors and they seem to just not be able to understand my intuitive mind". And that's what annoys me; the idea that it is so much harder for a sensor to understand an intuitive than it is for an intuitive to understand a sensor. I suppose intuitives have more practice due to a larger sensor population, but there is no intrinsic difference in being able to understand each other.
    I don't see any invisible treasure chests.

    • MBTI? ISTJ
    • Enneagram? 6 with a strong 7 wing
    • Brony? Yes
    • Stereotypes?

  7. #87
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    ESTP
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Socionics
    SLE
    Posts
    6,364

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Owfin View Post
    And that's what annoys me; the idea that it is so much harder for a sensor to understand an intuitive than it is for an intuitive to understand a sensor. I suppose intuitives have more practice due to a larger sensor population, but there is no intrinsic difference in being able to understand each other.
    You are talking to a wall here. This idea, simple as it is, will never be accepted by some people here who need MBTI to feel speshul. And don't be fooled. They will come up with all kinds of rationalizations as to why this bullshit is actually true - they will list their exception-to-the-rule S friends as proof that they're being objective, they will obtusely refer to statistics that show the majority of the population to be S (without, you know, differentiating between any of the S types, even though that category encompasses a very wide spectrum of different personalities), and they will eventually accuse you of attempting to discredit their experiences of being a long-suffering N trying to fit into an S world.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  8. #88
    Senior Member StrawMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    109

    Default

    Most satisfying discussions with S's happen when we are telling entertaining anecdotes to each other, or discussing how something should be done, or fixed. The caveat here is that when I hear someone start speculating with the underlying reasons of something, be it Euro-area crisis or relationship trouble, I quickly assume that he/she is N.
    So this is probably just being too black/white from me, and therefore not understanding how good discussions you may actually have with people (barely) receiving S from the test.

  9. #89
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    ESTP
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Socionics
    SLE
    Posts
    6,364

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by StrawMan View Post
    when I hear someone start speculating with the underlying reasons of something, be it Euro-area crisis or relationship trouble, I quickly assume that he/she is N.
    I know. That's why I said earlier in the thread that people who think they're N erroneously tag others who agree/get along with/"communicate like" them as Ns. Which is why this whole thread (and really, any of the others having to do with S/N, since it is far and away the poorest understood of the dichotomies) is a bunch of bullshit.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  10. #90
    i love skylights's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 so/sx
    Socionics
    EII Ne
    Posts
    7,835

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Owfin View Post
    I just don't like this assumption that Ss don't adapt to Ns. It makes it seem like being an S is easy and oh, anybody can be an S, but being an intuitive is hard.
    I feel like this is a very important point... there is some degree of "specialness" that has been appointed to N (I assume largely by Ns on the internet who have previously felt "weird" and alone, and are embracing N as a justification for weirdness and the separation they feel). But the distance Ns may feel from reality is an artifact of their most-used thinking processes, not a real separation, and it would be folly to assume that mental distance that results from N preference is more significant than other factors that can make us feel separate from others.

    I think it is also somewhat fair to say that since Ns essentially create our own mind-distance, we are largely responsible for overcoming that. Or, at least, we will always be subject to the whims of the external if we do not endeavor to overcome that distance ourselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    they will obtusely refer to statistics that show the majority of the population to be S (without, you know, differentiating between any of the S types, even though that category encompasses a very wide spectrum of different personalities)
    Yes, I disagree with this as well. Regardless of what "official" statistics say, from looking at people I interact with in life and doing my best to guesstimate their types, I really do not see that much of a disparity between numbers of Ss and Ns. I think they are fairly equal, honestly. And of course certain types will gravitate towards certain areas and certain intellectual fields. And as you mention, there are major differences between Si dom, Se dom, and S aux types.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    That's why I said earlier in the thread that people who think they're N erroneously tag others who agree/get along with/"communicate like" them as Ns.
    Probably frequently, especially online. It can even happen if you are certain you are N. There is no question in my mind that I am an ENFP, but I mistook my ESFJ significant other for a fellow ENxP when I first met him, because of his outgoing energy and rapid flight of conversation. Half a year later it is very clear (to both of us) that he is an SJ.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    this whole thread (and really, any of the others having to do with S/N, since it is far and away the poorest understood of the dichotomies) is a bunch of bullshit.
    When I skim this thread what I see is a significant number of people who do feel like there is a communication difference, as well as significant realizations taking place regarding other factors involved in that communication difference. There has been little judgment implicit in the conversation - and no outright bias; the questions posed are aimed to improve communication, not to widen a gap that is theoretical to begin with (and, without doubt, replete with people who have mistyped themselves). I agree with @Owfin's point - and I agree that there are some Ns who think of themselves as pretty little hurt unicorns and readily engage difference to elevate their perceived self-worth.

    Still, I think it is better to have this conversation take place, and to uncover false conceptions about Perception and communication as the discussion proceeds, as opposed to calling the whole thing bullshit and having people continue to snowball their individual misperceptions into concrete ways of thinking since we shy away from discussing it in the open, ill-conceived biases and all. As long as we have voices of reason - yourself included - to keep the discussion from veering into artificial bigotry, I think truth will surface through the fog.

Similar Threads

  1. INTPs in conversations & relationships.
    By Xander in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 11-02-2007, 08:32 AM
  2. bash.org. Amusing chatroom conversations.
    By darlets in forum Science, Technology, and Future Tech
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 05-28-2007, 12:22 AM
  3. Overheard Conversations
    By kuranes in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-20-2007, 07:03 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO