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  1. #11
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    ^ Interesting point. How would you define the difference? Can you give any examples?

    All I know is that I'm bad with memorising anything, including detailed concepts. It is easier for me to remember things if I have been shown the connections between concepts and/or a significant meaning that can be taken from them. I need to know why it is important, what the effects or implications are, what pattern it creates within a system of ideas and what this pattern tells me; otherwise all I remember are vague aspects and broad strokes at best because it all just looks like random data to me.
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    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  2. #12
    Senior Member Owfin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    ^ Interesting point. How would you define the difference? Can you give any examples?
    When I get a formula in math, I need to know what X is doing, why X works, what Y is doing, why it works, why you can make it into a different equation, why you can graph it this way or that. I get a really thick understanding of it.

    I am not sure what exactly it would be like for types with different perceiving function orders.
    I don't see any invisible treasure chests.

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  3. #13
    sswwwaagggg gmanyo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owfin View Post
    When I get a formula in math, I need to know what X is doing, why X works, what Y is doing, why it works, why you can make it into a different equation, why you can graph it this way or that. I get a really thick understanding of it.

    I am not sure what exactly it would be like for types with different perceiving function orders.
    This is why I hated pre-calc, and found it significantly harder than Calculus. It was just memorizing equations, and you just had to trust that they made sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    I'm starting to see you and your avatar as a cloud of odor that eminates from trashy threads.

  4. #14
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owfin View Post
    When I get a formula in math, I need to know what X is doing, why X works, what Y is doing, why it works, why you can make it into a different equation, why you can graph it this way or that. I get a really thick understanding of it.

    I am not sure what exactly it would be like for types with different perceiving function orders.
    cool. my questions tend to run: why do i want to know this formula? where does it get me? why should i care about wherever it gets me? is it interesting? if not, is there a faster way of doing this?

    and then later if it passes my "importantance testing" i will ask similar questions to yours.

    this might in part be Pe vs Pi difference too, though. Ne is indeed a skimming function.

    Quote Originally Posted by Owfin View Post
    The thing is that detail is not simultaneous with rote to me. It might be for Ns, which would be the cause of the confusion. I want to know why every piece works, and then I can build up a whole system.
    i think detail can seem rote to us because in general it seems not to carry very much importance (besides certain details at certain times).

  5. #15
    Senior Member lauranna's Avatar
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    I find it easy to memorise word for word large amounts of information. I can still remember most of a translation of a passage about ten pages long I learnt for Latin GCSE which was about 13 years ago. So I always scored very highly (often 100%) on any exams which you could pass by memorising information.

    Anything which requires understanding of concepts, i have to actually be interested in it to learn it. Otherwise I just don't.

  6. #16
    From the Undertow CuriousFeeling's Avatar
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    I have poor skills in rote memorization. If I am to memorize something, I have to set it to something musical/poetic, or use flash cards. I am much better at applying concepts, extrapolating/interpolating/interpreting data. The way that I end up memorizing things like formulas and reagents to use in chemical reactions involves doing a lot of practice problems that it ends up becoming second nature, or finding a connection to said idea/reaction/mathematical formula to a larger concept.

    Detailed data to memorize causes information overload for me, and my brain shuts down. Give me the general concept that is at play, then I tend to remember things best. Additionally, give me a procedure that something operates by, step by step process for doing something, and have it as a succinct outline, I do much better with it.
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  7. #17
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    I think I am incapable of doing any rote intellectual activity because I am incapable of withstanding the torture of prolonged mental boredom. I'd rather not do any of that sort of work, save it all up for the last minute, and have to rush to get it done just to make it a more exciting activity. And even then I don't really "learn" anything. That's basically how I got through school.

    So, yeah, "rote learning" is kind of a contradiction of terms.

    Also, I'd like to agree with the person who said that a distinction needs to be made between learning details and rote memorization (namely, you don't need the latter to do the former.) If you don't like details, how do you gain a refined knowledge of anything at all?
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  8. #18
    From the Undertow CuriousFeeling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    I think I am incapable of doing any rote intellectual activity because I am incapable of withstanding the torture of prolonged mental boredom. I'd rather not do any of that sort of work, save it all up for the last minute, and have to rush to get it done just to make it a more exciting activity. And even then I don't really "learn" anything. That's basically how I got through school.

    So, yeah, "rote learning" is kind of a contradiction of terms.

    Also, I'd like to agree with the person who said that a distinction needs to be made between learning details and rote memorization (namely, you don't need the latter to do the former.) If you don't like details, how do you gain a refined knowledge of anything at all?
    And there's also a difference between parroting the details vs. actually achieving a deep understanding of what those ideas mean. Gaining refined knowledge of the details begins with synthesizing them together, and then forming an insight about them. If I'm given details, I'm terrible at recalling them exactly, but I can give you the general concept that weaves the details together.
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  9. #19
    Senior Member Owfin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousFeeling View Post
    And there's also a difference between parroting the details vs. actually achieving a deep understanding of what those ideas mean. Gaining refined knowledge of the details begins with synthesizing them together, and then forming an insight about them. If I'm given details, I'm terrible at recalling them exactly, but I can give you the general concept that weaves the details together.
    Not for me. I work the other way around. Gaining a refined knowledge of the whole begins with understanding the details.
    I don't see any invisible treasure chests.

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  10. #20
    sswwwaagggg gmanyo's Avatar
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    Straight up memorization is required in some areas, though. Language, for example, requires a lot of memorization, and there's not really an "understanding" component once you already know the grammar and you're just trying to learn vocabulary.
    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    I'm starting to see you and your avatar as a cloud of odor that eminates from trashy threads.

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