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  1. #1
    You're fired. Lol. Antimony's Avatar
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    Default Logical thinkers and religion

    Religion isn't inherently logical. However, religion is not practiced by only illogical members of society.

    What makes people religious? Are logical folk more likely to shun religion than those who are more illogical? Or less prone to using logic as their guide?

    I'd like to hear opinions and experiences concerning logic and religion.

    A better wording (courtesy of @Peguy:

    ....was arguing is that there's both rational and irrational forms of religion, and people who believe/disbelieve for similar reasons. So what's the distinction between the two and what is the general relationship between rational thought and religion?
    Last edited by Antimony; 01-25-2012 at 10:50 PM.
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antimony View Post
    Religion isn't inherently logical. However, religion is not practiced by only illogical members of society.

    What makes people religious? Are logical folk more likely to shun religion than those who are more illogical? Or less prone to using logic as their guide?

    I'd like to hear opinions and experiences concerning logic and religion.
    I reject your hackneyed logic/rational thinking vs. illogical/irrational religosity dichotomy and also the implicit value judgements.

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    Senior Member captain curmudgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I reject your hackneyed logic/rational thinking vs. illogical/irrational religosity dichotomy and also the implicit value judgements.
    Nowhere did she say that religion is inherently illogical either. I reject your inability to form an incredibly basic coherent argument or analyze such an argument!

    There may have been implicit value judgements, yes; But surely, especially as an NT, you recognize that making assumptions detracts from your own credibility where logical matters are concerned.

  4. #4
    You're fired. Lol. Antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I reject your hackneyed logic/rational thinking vs. illogical/irrational religosity dichotomy and also the implicit value judgements.
    Read the post with a little more rationale. I didn't say it was illogical.

    You can answer the question or try to logically pick it apart and waste your time. Your choice.
    Excuse me, but does this smell like chloroform to you?

    Always reserve the right to become smarter at a future point in time, for only a fool limits themselves to all they knew in the past. -Alex

  5. #5
    Senior Member Xyk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I reject your hackneyed logic/rational thinking vs. illogical/irrational religosity dichotomy and also the implicit value judgements.
    That's hardly an answer. I think it's a valid assumption that there are contradictions and leaps in logic found with The Bible. Both religious thinking and rational thinking claim to explain exactly everything. If they contradict each other while claiming the same territory, then they are at odds. A dichotomy is a word for what they are.

    If we look in the Christian Bible, there are plenty of logical things and plenty of illogical things. There are contradictions. That is a fact. Logic does not support those.

    Example:
    PRO 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.

    1CO 1:19: "For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent."
    "And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham." (GEN 22:1)

    "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man." (JAS 1:13)
    Clearly there's something illogical here. No context makes that any less contradictory.
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  6. #6
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelchairdoug View Post
    Nowhere did she say that religion is inherently illogical either. I reject your inability to form an incredibly basic coherent argument or analyze such an argument!

    There may have been implicit value judgements, yes; But surely, especially as an NT, you recognize that making assumptions detracts from your own credibility where logical matters are concerned.
    I dont accept the simplist dichotomy which has been set up there, by engaging with the discussion while it is framed in that way I'm only going to be supporting it.

    So rather than do that I choose to point out how it was not in actuality an objective discussion. Now your response is similarly emotive, calling into question my credibility and suggesting that I'm making assumptions when I'm not.

    There's so many of you guys who believe that you're being rational who're just exercising a compliance with powerful affects, you're shut off to acknowledging this and instead project it upon others.

    Considering that MBTI was an innovation of Jung who was familiar with all these concepts, ie transference, repression, affects, projection etc. I'm always surprised that this is such a big feature on this forum. Religion and politics just bring it out.

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    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antimony View Post
    Read the post with a little more rationale. I didn't say it was illogical.

    You can answer the question or try to logically pick it apart and waste your time. Your choice.
    I'm not wasting anyones time, you begin by saying its not inherently illogical but the implication is that you believe it is in some respect illogical, you then go on to question whether logical thinkers can be religious and whether or not religious people use logic, the implication's clear again, and the dichotomy you've created.

    A discussion framed in this way is going to have predetermined outcomes, so rather than accept that, which would be a waste of time, I highlighted what you had done, which at least has a potential to be useful or interesting.

    Although if you're going to reject that and substitute the sandbox of your framed debate instead I'll step out.

  8. #8
    Senior Member captain curmudgeon's Avatar
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    Anyway, I'm currently reading a book for my bible study group. It is called The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief. I only received it today, but I look forward to reading it, and perhaps reflecting upon it as well as my own thoughts on the forum.

  9. #9
    Senior Member captain curmudgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    but the implication is that you believe it is in some respect illogical
    Where did you get that?

  10. #10
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelchairdoug View Post
    Where did you get that?
    Read the first sentence.

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