User Tag List

First 5678917 Last

Results 61 to 70 of 205

  1. #61
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    ILI Te
    Posts
    1,387

    Default

    Isn't this topic getting a bit worn out?
    You lose.

    _______

    RCOEI
    Melancholic-Choleric
    Respectful Leader

    Johari Window|Nohari Window

  2. #62
    Member Skip Foreplay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    MBTI
    ENxP
    Socionics
    ENFp
    Posts
    35

    Default

    No, not for those who haven't been discussing it.

  3. #63
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/sp
    Posts
    5,536

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    Isn't this topic getting a bit worn out?
    Amen.

    Pun intended.
    ~luck favors the ready~


    Shameless Self-Promotion:MDP2525's Den and the Start of Motorcycle Maintenance

  4. #64
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Antimony View Post
    Religion isn't inherently logical. However, religion is not practiced by only illogical members of society.

    What makes people religious? Are logical folk more likely to shun religion than those who are more illogical? Or less prone to using logic as their guide?

    I'd like to hear opinions and experiences concerning logic and religion.
    Well, a few thoughts:

    1. Logical people do practice religion; I think, though, that the question is that of "initial assumptions" on which their faith is built, not the logical way they proceed based on those assumptions. In other words, I think a logical-minded non-believer should be able to follow what a logical believer believes, once they are made aware of the initial assumptions of the believer. It typically proceeds rationally from the initial assumptions.

    2. For me, my rationality tells me to be more agnostic in my consideration of faith (from the logical perspective), but that does not mean that I cannot hold personal values that are expressed through the faith that is being practiced; I just consider them moral imperatives meant to reflect who i am and what I have come to believe, even if I cannot "prove" them to be true through some process. I use my rationality instead to justify their possibility, and within that realm of possibility and plausibility, i have freedom to pursue values that matter to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by guesswho View Post
    And why would God need a Noah, a ship and a flood to kill 99% of life on earth ?
    I think the Bible offered all the explanation that you are going to get for that one.

    as to whether you accept the Bible's explanation, that's another matter.


    Quote Originally Posted by guesswho View Post
    In the bible it didn't say that the glaciers melted and that's where the water came from. It states that it rained, until the highest mountains were covered by water. (from what I remember)
    Mount Everest has 8796 meters, where the hell would all that water come from? We don't have so much water.

    That's unless God decided to beam us some water.
    That's one really good reason to believe that the Flood (if it occurred) was FAR more limited in scope rather than a world-wide deluge. It simply isn't feasible, even within the realm of miracles.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #65
    A window to the soul
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by guesswho View Post
    Moses wasn't God and he could move the sea.How could he split a sea in 2?
    God is the one who parted the red sea, not Moses. God simply told Moses to raise his staff. God wanted Moses to trust him. Moses raised his staff to God when it was time for God to part the sea. It was a symbolic act of obedience. Moses was leading the Jewish slaves out of captivity from pharaoh. When they got to the Red Sea the people were afraid. They wondered why they were brought out of captivity just to drown or die by the Red Sea. God parted the sea to rescue them.

    God is all powerful. He created the universe.

    "By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible" (Hebrews 11:3).

    Was Moses creating a force field inside the sea?
    Only God knows.

    And how would anyone create a large boat to fit all the species on earth?
    God. (:

    God instructed Noah on how to build it down to the small details. The build instructions are in the Bible.

    The ark was believed to be discovered on Mt. Ararat, which is exactly where the Bible said it came to rest.

    Here is a very interesting video with everything you want to know:
    *

    Quote Originally Posted by guesswho View Post
    And why would God need a Noah, a ship and a flood to kill 99% of life on earth ?
    If I remember correctly, God was destroying mankind and starting over. Angels were cohabiting with humans and the gene pool got corrupted. Noah and his family were the only righteous people left on earth; meaning, in right standing with God.

    Edit: That was the method God chose to purge the earth. (Maybe he's ENTP, lol.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia - Quotations are taken from the English Standard Version of the Bible; the Book of Genesis, Chapters 6–9
    In the Genesis narrative, God observes that humanity is corrupt and decides to destroy all life. However, "Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his generation, [and] Noah walked with God," and so God gives him instructions for the ark, into which he is told to bring "two of every sort [of animal]...male and female ... everything on the dry land in whose nostrils was the breath of life," and their food.[7] The dimensions of the vessel are specified: "the length of the ark 300 cubits, its breadth 50 cubits, and its height 30 cubits".[8]

    God instructs Noah to board the ark with his family, seven pairs of the birds and the clean animals, and one pair of the unclean animals. "On the same day all the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened, and the rain was upon the earth," and God closes up the door of the ark. The flood begins, and the waters prevail until all the high mountains are covered fifteen cubits deep. All the people and animals and creeping things and birds of the heavens are blotted out from the Earth, and only Noah and those with him in the ark remain alive.[9]

    Then "God remembered Noah," and causes his wind to blow, and the fountains of the deep and the windows of the heavens are closed. The rain is restrained, the waters abate, and in the seventh month the ark rests on the mountains of Ararat. In the tenth month, the tops of the mountains are seen, and Noah sends out a raven and a dove to see if the waters have subsided; the raven flies "to and fro" but the dove returns with a fresh olive leaf in her beak. Noah waits seven days more and sends out the dove again, and this time it does not return.[10]

    When the land is dry, God tells Noah to leave the ark, and Noah offers a sacrifice to God. God resolves never again to curse the Earth, "for the intention of man’s heart is evil from his youth."[10] God grants to Noah and his sons the right to kill animals and eat their meat, but forbids meat which has not been drained of its blood. Blood is proclaimed to be sacred, and the unauthorized taking of life is prohibited: "For your lifeblood I will require a reckoning: from every beast I will require it and from man...Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed, for God made man in his own image." God then establishes his covenant with Noah and his sons and with all living things, and places a rainbow in the clouds, "the sign of the covenant that I have established between me and all flesh that is on the earth."[11]

  6. #66

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    God is the one who parted the red sea, not Moses. God simply told Moses to raise his staff. God wanted Moses to trust him. Moses raised his staff to God when it was time for God to part the sea. It was a symbolic act of obedience. Moses was leading the Jewish slaves out of captivity from pharaoh. When they got to the Red Sea the people were afraid. They wondered why they were brought out of captivity just to drown or die by the Red Sea. God parted the sea to rescue them.

    God is all powerful. He created the universe.
    I know you're not the only Christian aboard the SS TypC, but you've been one of the most vocal lately in the discussions surrounding belief vs. non-belief so I've quoted some of the premises you've set forward in your post since they're reflective of Christian beliefs at large.

    As far as I can tell, barring direct communications with the divine, you've determined all of this to be fact based on a multi-authored book...
    based on a multi-authored collection of manuscripts
    based on a multi-authored collection of scrolls
    based on an oral tradition...
    estimated to have been pieced together between several hundred and 2,000+ years ago depending on your textsource and scholarship of choice. You're also one of 2+ billion other people on the planet who believes the same thing. That is certainly a lot of faith in the authenticity of twice-translated, 2000+ year old authorship.

    In keeping with my agnosticism, I don't think it's fair to expect believers such as yourself to suffer righteousness and certainty in non-believers, but pardoning their skepticism of yours seems perfectly reasonable.
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

  7. #67
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    17,575

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by iwakar View Post
    As far as I can tell, barring direct communications with the divine, you've determined all of this to be fact based on a multi-authored book...
    based on a multi-authored collection of manuscripts
    based on a multi-authored collection of scrolls
    based on an oral tradition...
    estimated to have been pieced together between several hundred and 2,000+ years ago depending on your textsource and scholarship of choice. You're also one of 2+ billion other people on the planet who believes the same thing. That is certainly a lot of faith in the authenticity of twice-translated, 2000+ year old authorship.

    In keeping with my agnosticism, I don't think it's fair to expect believers such as yourself to suffer righteousness and certainty in non-believers, but pardoning their skepticism of yours seems perfectly reasonable.
    All those centuries of enforced conversions and state religion certainly helped.

    It would be nice if those who don't believe, or just believe differently, could be spared the righteousness and certainty as well. Anyone unwilling to entertain alternative perspectives or thoughtful critique of their beliefs has weak faith, indeed. Like the blind men with the elephant, each of us has part of the truth, but no one of us has all of it.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  8. #68

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    All those centuries of enforced conversions and state religion certainly helped.

    It would be nice if those who don't believe, or just believe differently, could be spared the righteousness and certainty as well. Anyone unwilling to entertain alternative perspectives or thoughtful critique of their beliefs has weak faith, indeed. Like the blind men with the elephant, each of us has part of the truth, but no one of us has all of it.
    When I was a little girl, my devoutly Christian grandparents required me to read scripture with them every morning. And I remember on a particular morning discussing Genesis and the origins of the universe. I made the fateful mistake of asking my grandfather too many questions --the final one being, what existed before God created the universe and he became very angry with me and yelled at me that I should not question it. I never forgot this. It was the seed of doubt for everything that came after. I'm sure he believed discouraging my inquisitive nature was the surest way to encourage belief. Obviously, he was wrong.

    I wonder how many non-believers Christianity creates by discouraging critical analysis. Possibly more than the default godlessness that would persist if we were born orphaned on an island in a sensory deprivation chamber. Suppressing inquiry and dissent is far more subversive to Judeo-Christian aims than carbon-dating: the persistence of human curiosity predates it and may outlast it.
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

  9. #69
    resonance entropie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    entp
    Enneagram
    783
    Posts
    16,761

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by iwakar View Post
    When I was a little girl, my devoutly Christian grandparents required me to read scripture with them every morning. And I remember on a particular morning discussing Genesis and the origins of the universe. I made the fateful mistake of asking my grandfather too many questions --the final one being, what existed before God created the universe and he became very angry with me and yelled at me that I should not question it. I never forgot this. It was the seed of doubt for everything that came after. I'm sure he believed discouraging my inquisitive nature was the surest way to encourage belief. Obviously, he was wrong.

    I wonder how many non-believers Christianity creates by discouraging critical analysis. Possibly more than the default godlessness that would persist if we were born orphaned on an island in a sensory deprivation chamber. Suppressing inquiry and dissent is far more subversive to Judeo-Christian aims than carbon-dating: the persistence of human curiosity predates it and may outlast it.
    This basically what outlines the root of evil or religion to me. When you are raised with this stuff, it's hard to shun your childhood afterwards. People who still do it, tho being raised with the pure belief that God created the Universe, are the most strong to me, because they face the hardest challenge of them all. Its not only about confronting your parents, you basically have to reset your whole upbringing at some point, forget about all of it and create a new ideal for you that still is strong enough that you can believe in it.

    The funny thing is, if you raise your kids by showing them all alternative concepts, namely religion and science, you basically automatically raise them to become critical thinkers. And 90% of those childs prolly wont be religious. And then there are those, who may be raised rational and science only but become religious afterwards, because they see a sense in life given thru religion, they would miss otherwise. Those ones are the real religious people to me. The rest are only parrots.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  10. #70

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    This basically what outlines the root of evil or religion to me. When you are raised with this stuff, it's hard to shun your childhood afterwards. People who still do it, tho being raised with the pure belief that God created the Universe, are the most strong to me, because they face the hardest challenge of them all. Its not only about confronting your parents, you basically have to reset your whole upbringing at some point, forget about all of it and create a new ideal for you that still is strong enough that you can believe in it.

    The funny thing is, if you raise your kids by showing them all alternative concepts, namely religion and science, you basically automatically raise them to become critical thinkers. And 90% of those childs prolly wont be religious. And then there are those, who may be raised rational and science only but become religious afterwards, because they see a sense in life given thru religion, they would miss otherwise. Those ones are the real religious people to me. The rest are only parrots.
    These are excellent points. And yes for me it was a total reset and a painful one. Despite the fact that I am an otherwise decent, charitable, and productive member of society, I have still failed at life and personhood for having rejected religious dogma in the eyes of some of the nearest and dearest to me. That this one issue can override any other admirable quality in my person because their dogma serves as a greater narrative on my character than their personal knowledge of it, hurts, disappoints, and angers me.

    Any belief system centered around granting moral assessments of your peers (which gives people leave to commit all manner of horrors) from a 2000+ year old textual compilation that discounts and rewrites your own observations about them is absurd and corrupt.

    I'd like to add that conclusions are where we arrive at, not depart from.
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

Similar Threads

  1. Extroverted Intuition and Religion
    By SolitaryWalker in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 77
    Last Post: 02-12-2008, 02:20 AM
  2. Psychology and Religion
    By Kiddo in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 12-30-2007, 02:10 AM
  3. Types and Religion.
    By RealityDeviantPride in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 40
    Last Post: 12-02-2007, 09:54 PM
  4. [NF] NFs and religion
    By Cordiform in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 55
    Last Post: 12-01-2007, 02:15 PM
  5. The Australian Election and Religion
    By darlets in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 11-13-2007, 05:06 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO