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  1. #201

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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Your fatalistic streak for hopeless justice reminds me of Braveheart .

    Lately I found out that Mel Gibson made the movie Passion of Christ. I was kinda shocked to find out that all my american idols seem to be religious fanatics. I generally find this trend in America frightening. I mean I do tolerate belief, having grown up in a muslim quarter I quite early learned to cope with that. And everyone who has the "live and let live attitude" really is no problem to me. I even like endless debates about religion but still this fanatism which evolves from the arabian/western conflict is kinda startling. I dont really know if religion is worth that and I hope in the future that americans do find another cultural identity than only feeling united when Joyce Meyer speaks with her Botox lips or another war is waged.
    Religion can be used and abused and frequently is, the west vs. arab thing is relatively recent and I think a result of the blundering and bad way that the end of the cold war and post-communism rolled out after 1989, I'm not sure how the middle east became such a focus during the end of the cold war that it remains so, so significant, some of it is as old as the hills, for instance Britain in Afghanistan goes all the way back to world war one and earlier.

    Christianity as a politically useful ideology plays a part in that but played a part in the anti-communism of the US in its campaign against the USSR, something which I think underestimated until you watch a lot of the news reel footage in which they are talking about "godless communists" and making excuses for fascists and nazis even as useful against the "red menace" or containing it.

    Although is that Christianity? There's always going to be a difference between the official and alternative or radical critics of the official. Jesus was one example of that even in his interaction with the religious authorities of the day and the zealots.

    Gibson is odd when you check out his background and his father, who is much more of an extremist than he is, leading a small faction of ultra-traditionalist reactionaries (who think that Benedict is too liberal, WTF?)

  2. #202
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Religion can be used and abused and frequently is, the west vs. arab thing is relatively recent and I think a result of the blundering and bad way that the end of the cold war and post-communism rolled out after 1989, I'm not sure how the middle east became such a focus during the end of the cold war that it remains so, so significant, some of it is as old as the hills, for instance Britain in Afghanistan goes all the way back to world war one and earlier.

    Christianity as a politically useful ideology plays a part in that but played a part in the anti-communism of the US in its campaign against the USSR, something which I think underestimated until you watch a lot of the news reel footage in which they are talking about "godless communists" and making excuses for fascists and nazis even as useful against the "red menace" or containing it.

    Although is that Christianity? There's always going to be a difference between the official and alternative or radical critics of the official. Jesus was one example of that even in his interaction with the religious authorities of the day and the zealots.

    Gibson is odd when you check out his background and his father, who is much more of an extremist than he is, leading a small faction of ultra-traditionalist reactionaries (who think that Benedict is too liberal, WTF?)
    krass thx for the background infos.

    Using religion as a political tool is well-known in my country as well. Tho after the nazi regime people seemed to be healed of all kind of ideologies and started focussing on what is real again. Only a small minority of religious fanatics survived until today but basically nearly all religious people in my country have become people of the people. Leading are the protestants, while the Catholics often suffer from the edicts which come from Vatican, like no condoms or no abortions. But regarding human questions, religion virtually influences nothing of political intrest in my country. If someone would delegalize abortion because it is a religious crime, people would think if that guy may have lost his marbles and throw him out of government as quickly as possible.

    What made me think so is that, when you look at the America of the past 60 years; you'll find the most tremendous row of scientific breakthroughs in all of human history. Of course with the electronics age there was a whole new series of scientific breakthroughs to be made but the americans actually did it. Cant say that of my country as well, they were more lazy.

    So I am wondering, America is a country of extremes; on the one hand you have a lot of religious people and on the other hand you have the best scientists on Earth. Is that conflict maybe what fuels scientific progress ? While it would halt it, if in a country religion wasnt so developed ? Or aint there a connection ?
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  3. #203
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guesswho View Post
    Moses wasn't God and he could move the sea.

    How could he split a sea in 2?

    Was Moses creating a force field inside the sea?

    If so, how?

    Why can't anyone create a force field in seas today ?

    And how would anyone create a large boat to fit all the species on earth?

    And how would someone gather all the species on earth?

    I just googled and: "Scientists have described over 1.7 million of the world's species of animals, plants and algae, as of 2010."

    Well I guess we could exclude the algae because they live in the sea. Although I guess the algae would die too, in case of a flood.

    How would Noah collect 1.4 millions of species ?

    And you need a male and a female otherwise he would have collected them for nothing, in the case of animals.

    So he would need, about let's say 2 million of species.

    If Noah would have lived 60 years from the point he was given the task, then he should have "collected" a species and brought it on the ship in 1.296 seconds.

    Not to mention that he would have needed a ship as large as a small city.
    Not to mention that if all the species would have started from a single couple PER species at a set time in the past it would be clearly visible in the biosphere's genetic diversity.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

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    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  4. #204
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Religion can be used and abused and frequently is, the west vs. arab thing is relatively recent and I think a result of the blundering and bad way that the end of the cold war and post-communism rolled out after 1989, I'm not sure how the middle east became such a focus during the end of the cold war that it remains so, so significant, some of it is as old as the hills, for instance Britain in Afghanistan goes all the way back to world war one and earlier.
    Conflict between the (Christian) west and Arabs goes way back to the crusades. Each side has an ideology which can be used to support violence against "infidels" if taken literally. The current troubles in the middle east are rooted in the colonialism of the early 20th century, fueled largely by western desire to control oil resources. But few people who pontificate on the situation these days pay much heed to history. Perhaps one reason why so little progress is made.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Although is that Christianity? There's always going to be a difference between the official and alternative or radical critics of the official. Jesus was one example of that even in his interaction with the religious authorities of the day and the zealots.
    Quite. Religions don't kill people, people do. But in the hands of a zealot, a despot, or even a madman, religious doctrine can be a powerful tool because of the tendency of large groups of people to follow it almost without question.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  5. #205
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    The Dialogue of the Deaf

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    ...in the hands of a zealot, a despot, or even a madman, religious doctrine can be a powerful tool because of the tendency of large groups of people to follow it almost without question.
    The West values freedom, equality and reason while Islam values submission, inequality and fanaticism.

    And this becomes a problem when the West and Islam meet in the global village.

    Where the West is blind to Islamic fanaticism and violence, and Islam is blind to Western reason and equality.

    So the dialogue between Islam and the West is the dialogue of the deaf.

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