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  1. #161
    You're fired. Lol. Antimony's Avatar
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    @Nerd Girl

    -I did read the bible. I just wish for you to provide a general framework for why you believe what you do.

    -I'm sorry for asking for clarification, I did not realize it would offend you so. I wasn't denying the assumption someone made about you and your flexibility was fact. I was stating it so I could make sure I was understanding where you were coming from.

    -Have you read the Bhagavad Gita? How can anyone believe that anything is true but that after reading it?

    -People are clinging to you because you are asserting what you know to be fact and people are wishing for you to break it down for them. It would be preferable that you do it in your own words rather than talking down to everyone and making us feel bad.

    -My point about me being 'more spiritual than young cricket' is you at least implied (and please correct me if I am wrong) that I lacked the proper knowledge to make the assertion that it is just as illogical to say there is no god as to say there is absolutely one. I wish you would not be so condescending.

    -You keep asserting I have not read the bible. I have. Out of curiosity, have you read both the Old and New Testament, and do you study one or both?

    -My point about Zeus was just because someone feels something, it is not necessarily true.

    -Providing a framework for your beliefs should not be quite as complex as calculus. I do not wish for every detail.

    -Ah, do you mean the Holy Spirit is in your intuition? You said you felt its presence. Because you wish for me to infer on the information you have given, I gathered you took this as a physical feeling. Is it intuitive?

    You would do well to not talk down to people here. I am not saying your beliefs are not credible, but you take away from your credibility when you talk down to people.

    Also, when you say faith is a personal choice, that makes it seem like you simply choose the faith. There is nothing wrong with that. However, making the conscious choice to believe something does not make it fact, necessarily.

    It looks very un-respectable to talk the way you have been. We would all very much appreciate that you stopped talking down to us.
    Excuse me, but does this smell like chloroform to you?

    Always reserve the right to become smarter at a future point in time, for only a fool limits themselves to all they knew in the past. -Alex

  2. #162
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    Antimony,

    So what you're saying is that theistic beliefs are not inherently irrational. Some theists are rational and some atheists are irrational. I agree. Rationality is not a property of beliefs, but rather the process of belief formation. A rational is someone who holds all their positions open to criticism, a person who is interested in discovering truth, whatever it may be, and a person mindful of their own fallibility. This vision of a rationalist obviously does not preclude being a theist. By such reckoning, some theists are irrational, but so are many atheists. Attempts to brand one or the other inherently irrational is a strategy meant to illigitmise opponents rather than a truth-seeking argument.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

  3. #163
    You're fired. Lol. Antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reason View Post
    Antimony,

    So what you're saying is that theistic beliefs are not inherently irrational. Some theists are rational and some atheists are irrational. I agree. Rationality is not a property of beliefs, but rather the process of belief formation. A rational is someone who holds all their positions open to criticism, a person who is interested in discovering truth, whatever it may be, and a person mindful of their own fallibility. This vision of a rationalist obviously does not preclude being a theist. By such reckoning, some theists are irrational, but so are many atheists. Attempts to brand one or the other inherently irrational is a strategy meant to illigitmise opponents rather than a truth-seeking argument.
    Yes. Thank you for this post.

    I enjoy a nice debate to seek the truth. I think that believing things are constant is irrational. Human history has shown many changes in belief over time. Some things are more likely to remain true than others, but if presented with contradicting evidence, I believe it is important to take this into consideration.

    Who likes to live a lie just to be comfortable or to be right? I guess it works for some people.
    Excuse me, but does this smell like chloroform to you?

    Always reserve the right to become smarter at a future point in time, for only a fool limits themselves to all they knew in the past. -Alex

  4. #164
    A window to the soul
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antimony View Post
    @Nerd Girl

    -I did read the bible. I just wish for you to provide a general framework for why you believe what you do.

    -I'm sorry for asking for clarification, I did not realize it would offend you so. I wasn't denying the assumption someone made about you and your flexibility was fact. I was stating it so I could make sure I was understanding where you were coming from.

    -Have you read the Bhagavad Gita? How can anyone believe that anything is true but that after reading it?

    -People are clinging to you because you are asserting what you know to be fact and people are wishing for you to break it down for them. It would be preferable that you do it in your own words rather than talking down to everyone and making us feel bad.

    -My point about me being 'more spiritual than young cricket' is you at least implied (and please correct me if I am wrong) that I lacked the proper knowledge to make the assertion that it is just as illogical to say there is no god as to say there is absolutely one. I wish you would not be so condescending.

    -You keep asserting I have not read the bible. I have. Out of curiosity, have you read both the Old and New Testament, and do you study one or both?

    -My point about Zeus was just because someone feels something, it is not necessarily true.

    -Providing a framework for your beliefs should not be quite as complex as calculus. I do not wish for every detail.

    -Ah, do you mean the Holy Spirit is in your intuition? You said you felt its presence. Because you wish for me to infer on the information you have given, I gathered you took this as a physical feeling. Is it intuitive?

    You would do well to not talk down to people here. I am not saying your beliefs are not credible, but you take away from your credibility when you talk down to people.

    Also, when you say faith is a personal choice, that makes it seem like you simply choose the faith. There is nothing wrong with that. However, making the conscious choice to believe something does not make it fact, necessarily.

    It looks very un-respectable to talk the way you have been. We would all very much appreciate that you stopped talking down to us.
    I apologize for hurting your feelings. Please accept that my faith in God is beyond your understanding, just as I accept your lack of fath in God is beyond my understanding.

    End of discussion.

  5. #165
    You're fired. Lol. Antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    I apologize for hurting your feelings. Please accept that my faith in God is beyond your understanding, just as I accept your lack of fath in God is beyond my understanding.

    End of discussion.
    I believe there is a god.

    I whole heartedly accept your faith in god, just not the fact that you think that choosing to believe can be broken down with logic. God is, to me, an intuitive thing, rather than a rational, fully understandable thing.

    I think that trying to break down whatever god is is like giving crayons to a 4 year old and telling them to draw the Mona Lisa as a replacement.
    Excuse me, but does this smell like chloroform to you?

    Always reserve the right to become smarter at a future point in time, for only a fool limits themselves to all they knew in the past. -Alex

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    Guess what? I agree with you entirely on that. I think most people would agree with that.
    Thank you.

    But the insinuation is that you don't want to be challenged.
    I don't mind being challenged when people 'get it' and appear to at least try to understand my point of view. I'm not getting the impression that any of the folks challenging me are sincere and some thrive on creating confusion.

    We're going in circles now. What I've stated in this thread, makes perfect sense to those who are born again Christians. Thinker, feeler; young, old; logical, illogical; it's irrelevant when it comes to faith and religion. Ultimately, faith is a choice.

    God is a spirit. Christians have born again spirits because they have accepted Jesus Christ as their savior. If you are not a Christian, I don't expect you to understand spiritual things because your spirit is dead. I'm not saying that to disrespect or talk down to you. I'm saying that from personal experience having been there; I know what before and after is like.

    I have nothing more to say in this thread. PM me if you are sincere.

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    You still have yet to say whether you believe the Bible is 100%, literally true; that isn't so hard, now is it? Especially for someone with faith.
    I was reading the last book of the Bible called, "Revelations", the other day, and I was struck by how well it is written and yet seemed to bear no relation to reality.

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    I was reading the last book of the Bible called, "Revelations", the other day, and I was struck by how well it is written and yet seemed to bear no relation to reality.
    Of course not. It's a book of prophecy. It's future.



    Edit: @Victor, Most of it is symbolic; for instance, the black horse is death and the red horse is war. I think it is the hardest book to understand.

    @Ginkgo, No, I don't interpret everything in the Bible as literal.

  9. #169
    You're fired. Lol. Antimony's Avatar
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    I don't mind being challenged when people 'get it' and appear to at least try to understand my point of view. I'm not getting the impression that any of the folks challenging me are sincere and some thrive on creating confusion.
    I think most people find it to be a waste of time to create confusion on this subject. It is confusing enough as it is. I am sincere. I know that wasn't directed to me, but it applies.

    We're going in circles now. What I've stated in this thread, makes perfect sense to those who are born again Christians. Thinker, feeler; young, old; logical, illogical; it's irrelevant when it comes to faith and religion. Faith is a choice.
    Thank you. Use of logic is irrelevant in religion.

    I disagree- I think that god would frown upon someone believing him because they are acting as sheep. But no matter.
    Excuse me, but does this smell like chloroform to you?

    Always reserve the right to become smarter at a future point in time, for only a fool limits themselves to all they knew in the past. -Alex

  10. #170
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    Never Born

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    ...makes perfect sense to those who are born again Christians.
    You have the advantage of me, dear Nerd Girl, for I haven't even been born once, never mind twice.

    For I am a Caesar, my mother never gave birth, but rather I was taken from her womb before birth could even take place.

    So even if I were born in the Spirit, it would be my first birth, rather than being born again.

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