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  1. #111
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xyk View Post
    No, this is a thread about religion. In religion, things like the existence of god are absolute. I always hope religious faith is hyperbolic, but it never has been in my experience. Plus, she said it enough times in several different ways.
    lol. logical fallacies on the prowl 2nite.
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I’m here to tell you that fast is better. I’ve always believed this, in spite of the trouble it’s caused me. Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…”


  2. #112
    Senior Member Xyk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LEGERdeMAIN View Post
    lol. logical fallacies on the prowl 2nite.
    What did I say? That because things have always been one way in the past, they must continue to be the same way? I could see that being a fallacy. My bad. But Christianity, and Nerd Girl herself both assert that absolute belief is, in fact, absolute.
    MBTI: INTP (PNIT if you wanna put it in order of strength.)
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  3. #113
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xyk View Post
    What did I say? That because things have always been one way in the past, they must continue to be the same way? I could see that being a fallacy. My bad. But Christianity, and Nerd Girl herself both assert that absolute belief is, in fact, absolute.
    We have faith in the absoluteness of the Christian God so we treat it as absolute, but only God knows anything absolutely.

    This is no different from anyone else who uses the term "absolute" in regards to their own knowledge. It just means they treat it as absolute on faith... Unless that person happens to be God.
    Take the weakest thing in you
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  4. #114
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xyk View Post
    What did I say? That because things have always been one way in the past, they must continue to be the same way? I could see that being a fallacy. My bad. But Christianity, and Nerd Girl herself both assert that absolute belief is, in fact, absolute.
    Christianity cannot assert anything because it is not human, it's not even a cyborg-commune-singularity.

    Is it possible that one could be convinced that a belief in something, whether god or green grass, is absolute? Even to the point that no new information can change that belief? What about new theories in the past 150 years that claim that all living things have common ancestors? How do absolutist theists deal with these theories?
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I’m here to tell you that fast is better. I’ve always believed this, in spite of the trouble it’s caused me. Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…”


  5. #115
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Additionally, to not treat something we believe to be absolute as if it were absolute would not be logical.


    Edit: too many "nots" and I double negated myself.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  6. #116
    Senior Member Xyk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    We have faith in the absoluteness of the Christian God so we treat it as absolute, but only God knows anything absolutely.

    This is no different from anyone else who uses the term "absolute" in regards to their own knowledge. It just means they treat it as absolute on faith... Unless that person happens to be God.
    Yeah. If I read your post correctly, my primary and only point still stands. She treats (and states) her faith as absolute and then states open-mindedness on the same topic. Those are two mutually exclusive statements. I'm not trying to get rid of anyone's faith right now. That's a different time. This is just a contradiction, and I CANNOT STAND contradictions so blatant in a reasonable discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by LEGERdeMAIN View Post
    Christianity cannot assert anything because it is not human, it's not even a cyborg-commune-singularity.

    Is it possible that one could be convinced that a belief in something, whether god or green grass, is absolute? Even to the point that no new information can change that belief? What about new theories in the past 150 years that claim that all living things have common ancestors? How do absolutist theists deal with these theories?
    I used "Christianity" to mean "the authors of the Bible". I'm sorry.

    I think that it's probably possible to believe something absolutely. I don't think I could do it, but I think it's possible for some people. When people claim to do this with legitimate fervor, I tend to take them at their word.
    MBTI: INTP (PNIT if you wanna put it in order of strength.)
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    Also, credit for my new avatar goes to this person. I found it on the google.

  7. #117
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    Additionally, to not treat something we believe to be absolute as if it were absolute would not be logical.


    Edit: too many "nots" and I double negated myself.
    I don't think theists are particularly concerned with being logical, at least when it comes to god.
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I’m here to tell you that fast is better. I’ve always believed this, in spite of the trouble it’s caused me. Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…”


  8. #118
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xyk View Post
    Yeah. If I read your post correctly, my primary and only point still stands. She treats (and states) her faith as absolute and then states open-mindedness on the same topic. Those are two mutually exclusive statements. I'm not trying to get rid of anyone's faith right now. That's a different time. This is just a contradiction, and I CANNOT STAND contradictions so blatant in a reasonable discussion.
    My understanding is similar to Leger's. I believe she is simply assenting to the fact that she is a limited being with limited knowledge. She simply cannot foresee any new info that would change her position.

    I don't see the big deal since most people would make the same sort of seemingly contradictory statement if you pushed them hard on any fundamental belief. This just goes to show that all knowledge is ultimately rooted in faith.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  9. #119
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LEGERdeMAIN View Post
    I don't think theists are particularly concerned with being logical, at least when it comes to god.
    Yeah, I believe that may be true in your neck of the woods, but it's important to most of the Christians I know.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  10. #120
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by LEGERdeMAIN View Post
    How do absolutist theists deal with these theories?
    By either adopting them into the fold of what is predominantly a theist worldview or rejecting them altogether. A personal God doesn't exclude the possibility of macroevolution, but a ~6,000 year old Universe does. Commonly, evolutionary theory and even cosmology is subservient to theology for those who accept it.

    I guess there are also those theists who could be confused and conflicted.

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