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  1. #91
    Senior Member Xyk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    That's not correct. I clearly stated where I stand.
    Do you have absolute certainty or do you have flexibility? It is impossible to have both. They are at odds. Either you know something for sure or you accept that new information might change your mind.
    MBTI: INTP (PNIT if you wanna put it in order of strength.)
    Socionics: INTp
    Enneagram: 5w4
    Alignment: Neutral Good
    Political Stance: (usually) Very Liberal
    Religious Stance: (roughly) Secular Humanist
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    Also, credit for my new avatar goes to this person. I found it on the google.

  2. #92
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    That does not bring justice to the truth of what God has done in my life; my experiences are real.
    Of course your experiences are real. They just have nothing to do with a god.

  3. #93
    Anew Leaf
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    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    I think it's illogical (hah) to assume that people are 100% logical or 100% illogical. Generally illogical people surely make logical decisions sometimes, and vice-versa. When logical people believe something illogical, it's probably because of emotion or passion. Religion would surely qualify.

    Also, as the OP pointed out, religion is not devoid of logic. There are many scientists who find that science does not dispute religion.
    Thank you.

  4. #94
    A window to the soul
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Of course your experiences are real. They just have nothing to do with a god.
    Prove it. And prove there's no God while you're at it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xyk View Post
    Do you have absolute certainty or do you have flexibility? It is impossible to have both. They are at odds. Either you know something for sure or you accept that new information might change your mind.
    No, not impossible. I have both.

  5. #95
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    Intuition. Faith. As an ENTP, Intuition is the language I speak.

    When Carl Jung was asked during a 1959 BBC interview if he believed in the existence of God, Jung replied, "I don't believe, I KNOW".

    Carl Jung said the following in the 1930's at a college seminar:
    "The truth is this, I have had the experience of being gripped by something that is stronger than myself, something that people call God. So, I will never say that I believe that God exists. I must say I KNOW God exists!"
    So just to clarify, "know" in this sense basically means "it feels like the truth"? If so, I have no problem with your stance. Feeling like something is the truth and being 100% certain you feel that way is different than believing something is an accurate representation of external reality with 100% certainty.

  6. #96
    Senior Member Xyk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    No, not impossible. I have both.
    How? Simply saying THAT you have something means absolutely nothing in a conversation. That's like saying I am made of 100% water, but I also include some other things in my composition. There are only one hundred percents. Open-mindedness and uncertainty are the same thing in this context. Also in all other contexts.

    Other example: I do not like broccoli. If offered broccoli, I can either keep an open mind, (meaning I accept that there is a possibility, however low, that I will like it this time), or I can stand by my previous belief. There are no other options here. I'm not sure how I can make this extremely simple principle of logic any clearer.
    MBTI: INTP (PNIT if you wanna put it in order of strength.)
    Socionics: INTp
    Enneagram: 5w4
    Alignment: Neutral Good
    Political Stance: (usually) Very Liberal
    Religious Stance: (roughly) Secular Humanist
    Class: Wizard
    Stereotype: Geek/Hippie

    Also, credit for my new avatar goes to this person. I found it on the google.

  7. #97
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    Prove it.
    That is merely the conclusion I draw from your inability to explain how you know that your experiences are a result of god's presence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    And prove there's no God while you're at it.
    If you can give me a definition of 'god' that is actually composed of meaningful words, I might be able to prove that god does not exist.

  8. #98
    A window to the soul
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    So just to clarify, "know" in this sense basically means "it feels like the truth"? If so, I have no problem with your stance. Feeling like something is the truth and being 100% certain you feel that way is different than believing something is an accurate representation of external reality with 100% certainty.


    No. I wouldn't describe intuition like that without further clarification because it's misleading. Intuition is not feeling. They are two different functions; two different modes of consciousness. Feeling is rational and evaluates values. Intuition is irrational and is an experience which is immediately given to consciousness.

    Intuition does not arise through mental activity like feeling does. It's more like gut instincts where one gathers information and perceives/knows the truth (as seen in patterns). I experience it as a knowing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xyk View Post
    Simply saying THAT you have something means absolutely nothing in a conversation. That's like saying I am made of 100% water, but I also include some other things in my composition. There are only one hundred percents. Open-mindedness and uncertainty are the same thing in this context. Also in all other contexts.

    Other example: I do not like broccoli. If offered broccoli, I can either keep an open mind, (meaning I accept that there is a possibility, however low, that I will like it this time), or I can stand by my previous belief. There are no other options here. I'm not sure how I can make this extremely simple principle of logic any clearer.
    Not accurate. I see where you're going with your clever connotations and I have no interest in going with you off that cliff. -yawns-

    Back on topic.

  9. #99
    Senior Member Xyk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    Not accurate denotations, silly. I see where you're going with your clever connotations and I have no interest in going with you off that cliff. -yawns-
    Honestly, if you don't mean what I've said, I have no idea what you mean by saying that you are both certain and open-minded. I don't mind if you believe in whatever deities make you happy so long as you don't hurt anyone with that belief. I really just want to know how you can be 100% certain AND allow the possibility that new information can change your mind. There is no denotation, connotation, or context that will make that little piece of what you said make any sense. Please say words that are not "because I do".

    Also, I'm pretty sure Evan wasn't talking about the Feeling function, but the general term.
    MBTI: INTP (PNIT if you wanna put it in order of strength.)
    Socionics: INTp
    Enneagram: 5w4
    Alignment: Neutral Good
    Political Stance: (usually) Very Liberal
    Religious Stance: (roughly) Secular Humanist
    Class: Wizard
    Stereotype: Geek/Hippie

    Also, credit for my new avatar goes to this person. I found it on the google.

  10. #100
    You're fired. Lol. Antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    Religion is not inherently illogical either. And I will need some examples of "illogical members of society."
    Do I need to baby you guys and add in it isn't inherently illogical either? I think I must.
    Excuse me, but does this smell like chloroform to you?

    Always reserve the right to become smarter at a future point in time, for only a fool limits themselves to all they knew in the past. -Alex

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