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  1. #51
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    This clears it up, thanks!


    This thread on PerN is an example of exactly why I emphasized "think you know". Observe:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEa7v...embedded#t=58s
    "lol intuitives only need three points and they magically got it, while sensors need every single detail of everything because they are dumb."

    Yeah, let's just not talk about the fact that intuitives can be wrong about the patterns they perceive.
    (Socionics-wise, I noticed he has the long "intuitive face.") There are many points he could have mentioned, but he is only being a sensor-bashing 5w6. A sensor makes for a fine navigator when it comes to driving around in unfamiliar territory, or even in familiar territory when the Intuitive driving is lost in thought and is about to miss the exit ramp. A sensor is great at seeing fine details the intuitive will miss without extra paying close attention.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Wait.. MBTI is about ideals we should strive for now? And the "archetypal/abstract" ISTP is my Jesus?

    I don't want to strive for anything. No matter what type I am, I just like to be me - whatever that may be. Typology helps me better understand other people, if anything. My interest in the subject isn't about my self-development per se. There are so many better ways to go about that.
    Whoops, how about we leave off "strive for" in my statement? I don't mean to imply that a type is something to strive for. I simply mean that types are abstract concepts and that abstract concepts are still useful.

  3. #53
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post

    Yeah, let's just not talk about the fact that intuitives can be wrong about the patterns they perceive.
    True. But in my case, I am always and ever fine-tuning the results of an intuition. Typology for me is mostly about fine-tuning the "vibes" I get. As auxiliary to Ti, my Ne is just a source of ideas. For example, last night I was reminded of Ray Jay Johnson (the "you can call me Ray" guy from 70s tv ads). While I was trying to remember exactly how his schtick went, it suddenly occurred to me, like a bolt from the blue, that the pattern of his spiel was in Iambic Pentameter poetic form. WRONG! I double checked and it was actually Iambic Trimeter. However, my intuitive insight was on the right track, it just needed a little fine-tuning of the details.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    True. But in my case, I am always and ever fine-tuning the results of an intuition. ... However, my intuitive insight was on the right track, it just needed a little fine-tuning of the details.
    Huh. I see similar things being true for me.. thanks for pointing that out.

    I also figure that, if I refine my intuitions and extract as much as I can from my experiences, then I will have truly learned from them, and my future insights will be even more accurate at more detailed levels. The key continues to be checking these insights against reality to determine how well they actually do match up.

    One's visceral response of "Oh god I gotta leave my job, oh crap, oh crap" might just become "Huh, it looks like I don't like getting yelled at. Can I avoid that at this job? Is that best accomplished by talking to my boss or just trying to do a better job?" And then one would know better for the next time, and babies are not thrown out with the bathwater.

  5. #55
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    Huh. I see similar things being true for me.. thanks for pointing that out.

    I also figure that, if I refine my intuitions and extract as much as I can from my experiences, then I will have truly learned from them, and my future insights will be even more accurate at more detailed levels. The key continues to be checking these insights against reality to determine how well they actually do match up.

    One's visceral response of "Oh god I gotta leave my job, oh crap, oh crap" might just become "Huh, it looks like I don't like getting yelled at. Can I avoid that at this job? Is that best accomplished by talking to my boss or just trying to do a better job?" And then one would know better for the next time, and babies are not thrown out with the bathwater.
    Was that supposed to be an example of intuition?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    Was that supposed to be an example of intuition?
    It's supposed to be, though the initial intuition was way off course. It's an example of starting with an immediate insight after a stimulus (e.g. the boss yelled at me) and running it through a major refinement process.

  7. #57
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    It's supposed to be, though the initial intuition was way off course. It's an example of starting with an immediate insight after a stimulus (e.g. the boss yelled at me) and running it through a major refinement process.
    Uh-uhhhhh. Not an insight. I offered the insight example. You gave a knee-jerk-reaction example.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    Uh-uhhhhh. Not an insight. I offered the insight example. You gave a knee-jerk-reaction example.
    Hmm. I'm not so sure that I draw a strong distinction between the two. Is the difference between "intuition" and "knee-jerk reaction" that one is accurate and the other is inaccurate, is it that they arrive from different sources, or is there another difference between them that I am missing?

    The poor soul in my example was right in that something was wrong with his work situation, but he was sketchy on the details until he checked it against the real world. (And, hopefully, his knee-jerk assessments of similar situations that arise later on will be more accurate because he has learned from this one!)

  9. #59
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    Hmm. I'm not so sure that I draw a strong distinction between the two. Is the difference between "intuition" and "knee-jerk reaction" that one is accurate and the other is inaccurate, is it that they arrive from different sources, or is there another difference between them that I am missing?

    The poor soul in my example was right in that something was wrong with his work situation, but he was sketchy on the details until he checked it against the real world. (And, hopefully, his knee-jerk assessments of similar situations that arise later on will be more accurate because he has learned from this one!)
    "Something is wrong with his work situation" differs from the "Oh god I gotta leave my job, oh crap, oh crap" visceral reaction. And the former is not an intuition unless you can show that it was a revelation.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    "Something is wrong with his work situation" differs from the "Oh god I gotta leave my job, oh crap, oh crap" visceral reaction. And the former is not an intuition unless you can show that it was a revelation.
    Point taken. Even the former seems like it'd be an 'obvious' response to a boss yelling. I'll have to mull over that one further.

    How about this instead: A dude was talking, and he shifted subjects to a particular person. While he was talking about this person, I received the insight that "He's suggesting that this person was 'antsy.' The next word that he's gonna say is something like 'antsy.'" all at once. The next word the guy said was "nervous," in describing the other person. Looking back, I suppose it was the inflection in his voice and the context that emerged mid-sentence, but I didn't factor those in until I thought about it later.

    Situations like that arise for me all the time in big ways and in little ways, and they do tend to guide me, though I still try to be open to the possibility that at least the details of these insights are wrong. It can be troublesome to figure out which details are wrong--and whether an insight of mine is just a knee-jerk reaction--until the situation unfolds.

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