User Tag List

First 23456 Last

Results 31 to 40 of 60

  1. #31
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Enneagram
    827 sp/so
    Posts
    20,131

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    I thought we were all aware that an ESTP doesn't exist outside an intellectual construct.
    *pokes at self* I feel pretty real to ME

    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    You should try yodeling in the canyon sometime.
    I'm sure that would terrify all of the nearby fauna into hiding... I'm tone deaf
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  2. #32
    garbage
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    I've never been much of one for putting faith in test results or anything of the sort just because people can't view themselves accurately... it's like trying to say what your voice sounds like without listening to a recording, only to the way that you hear yourself through your jawbone and inner ear
    Yeah, don't let the MBTI as an instrument color your perception of all survey methods. There are great, more reliable techniques in the field, and the field is just advancing all the time!

    Here, I talk about the functions as if they're actually valuable or accurate constructs, regardless of how well the MBTI itself captures them. To me, they're just ways of categorizing and organizing how we talk about the stuff that happens in our brain. Thus, we separate the functions from the thing that's supposed to measure how those functions play in our own heads.

    I call for a further separation of those functions (as ideals) from how they actually do play out in our heads, just because of the confusion it causes--again, they're not superpowers.

    But then...
    Quote Originally Posted by _Poki_ View Post
    Yeah, I guess, if you need that kind of thing. I prefer to focus on actual people and real life to reach forward.
    ... it seems like separating ideals from the people who embody them to an imperfect extent might not be useful for everyone.

    One good way to understand, define, or refine the functions is to see how those who identify with a particular set (e.g. Ne Ti) act. That's akin to the process of validation, where we compare our understanding to the real world to see if our understanding actually matches what happens.

  3. #33
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    STP
    Posts
    10,501

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    I have an idea for you: Do both.

    Good golly Miss Molly, I thought we were all aware that an ESTP doesn't exist outside an intellectual construct.
    When I find an "Ideal" I may strive for it. I have yet to find one. Maybe because I am looking at the real world. It seems more like "mental masterbation" to me.
    Im out, its been fun

  4. #34
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Enneagram
    827 sp/so
    Posts
    20,131

    Default

    finding a completely accurate method of analysis would be just about impossible to find though considering that any human being changes depending on the situation and experiences and things of that sort... personality is fluid instead of static... fluid more like unmelted wax, in that people aren't different people every day, but nobody is the same person today as they were 10 years ago... sometimes even some of the basic personality fundamentals can change in that time
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  5. #35
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    STP
    Posts
    10,501

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    One good way to understand, define, or refine the functions is to see how those who identify with a particular set (e.g. Ne Ti) act. That's akin to the process of validation, where we compare our understanding to the real world to see if our understanding actually matches what happens.
    I agree, where does expanding beyond whats real apply?
    Im out, its been fun

  6. #36
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    STP
    Posts
    10,501

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    finding a completely accurate method of analysis would be just about impossible to find though considering that any human being changes depending on the situation and experiences and things of that sort... personality is fluid instead of static... fluid more like unmelted wax, in that people aren't different people every day, but nobody is the same person today as they were 10 years ago... sometimes even some of the basic personality fundamentals can change in that time
    LMAO...I actually typed something along those same lines and then deleted it because i didnt feel like going that route.
    Im out, its been fun

  7. #37
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Enneagram
    827 sp/so
    Posts
    20,131

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by _Poki_ View Post
    LMAO...I actually typed something along those same lines and then deleted it because i didnt feel like going that route.
    obviously a case of great minds thinking alike!
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  8. #38
    garbage
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    finding a completely accurate method of analysis would be just about impossible to find though considering that any human being changes depending on the situation and experiences and things of that sort... personality is fluid instead of static... fluid more like unmelted wax, in that people aren't different people every day, but nobody is the same person today as they were 10 years ago... sometimes even some of the basic personality fundamentals can change in that time
    Yeah, like that one time when a dude got a pole through his freakin' head and his personality drastically changed. Geez! I don't think any typology theory would accurately explain that.

    Even still, typology and trait-based theories like the Big Five might still be useful. The thing is, after we've theorized a bit, we've gotta find their limitations. We ask: do these theories hold up for individuals over time? Do they necessarily need to? For example, Multiplicity posits that our traits are situational. I believe that's a valid line of inquiry--probably a result of trying to tie theories back to the real world.

    If they don't hold up for people over time, they might still be good as snapshots at points in time, typical representations for personal development, etc. We could use them to guide individuals' direction from the present moment, even if we don't pretend that their personalities are static.

    Quote Originally Posted by _Poki_ View Post
    I agree, where does expanding beyond whats real apply?
    The way I understand it, it applies in actually developing a theory. The theory is an attempt to explain what's real and generalize/extrapolate beyond what we already know to hypothesize about whatever else is out there. The problem is when we don't try to tie that new theory back into the real world.


    I am actually right there with you guys--the question of "are these theories valid?" is not asked enough.

  9. #39
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    MBTI
    IxTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ti
    Posts
    13,993

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    *pokes at self* I feel pretty real to ME
    But you're not AN estp.

    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    I'm sure that would terrify all of the nearby fauna into hiding... I'm tone deaf
    If yodeling doesn't reveal your true self, then it's impossible.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  10. #40
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    STP
    Posts
    10,501

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    Yeah, like that one time when a dude got a pole through his freakin' head and his personality drastically changed. I don't think any typology theory would accurately explain that.

    Even still, typology and trait-based theories like the Big Five might still be useful. The thing is, after we've theorized a bit, we've gotta find their limitations. We ask: do these theories hold up for individuals over time? Do they necessarily need to? For example, Multiplicity posits that our traits are situational. I believe that's a valid line of inquiry--probably a result of trying to tie theories back to the real world.

    If they don't hold up for people over time, they might still be good as snapshots at points in time, typical representations for personal development, etc. We could use them to guide individuals' direction from the present moment, even if we don't pretend that their personalities are static.



    The way I understand it, it applies in actually developing a theory. The theory is an attempt to explain what's real and generalize/extrapolate beyond what we already know to hypothesize about whatever else is out there. The problem is when we don't try to tie that new theory back into the real world.
    Ok, take his type and create a 3d representation...take a pole and shove it through the 3d representation. Thats his new type.

    You realize how hard it would be to find that "snapshot" that applies at that "point" in time. By the time you do the point in time has changed...the person has progressed. A person will always represent his current snapshot though so if you focus on the "person" you will always be working with the current snapshot.
    Im out, its been fun

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 18
    Last Post: 09-21-2015, 03:58 PM
  2. If you're in the stock market, keep in mind
    By Tantive in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 10-21-2010, 10:25 AM
  3. What are Fun Things to do in the Rain?
    By Vizconde in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 10-06-2010, 02:04 PM
  4. Help--How to Keep from Sleeping in Class!
    By rivercrow in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 05-21-2007, 01:51 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO