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Thinking/Feeling and Mercy

Asterion

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I find at my workplace that I'm always the one defending other people from criticism. A select group of co-workers are usually complaining that people are slow and lazy, they're all thinkers. I'm the one saying "wait a minute, that guy is new... of course he's going to be slow, he's adjusting, he's got no friends to motivate him and he's on a lower wage than you".

My brother and friends tell me that I'm quicker to defend other people than I am to defend myself.

Is there such a thing as merciful, MBTI Thinkers?
 

Asterion

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Wikipedia: Those who prefer thinking tend to decide things from a more detached standpoint, measuring the decision by what seems reasonable, logical, causal, consistent and matching a given set of rules. Those who prefer feeling tend to come to decisions by associating or empathizing with the situation, looking at it 'from the inside' and weighing the situation to achieve, on balance, the greatest harmony, consensus and fit, considering the needs of the people involved.

Pretty sure I'm going to have to change my type. :mellow:
 

strychnine

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Maybe your Fe is well-developed?

It appears though that you have good reasons to defend the guy, such that your co-workers' complaints may not make much sense. There exists unreasonable criticism. All criticism is not reasonable just because it is hurtful. Being hurtful for its own sake is not particularly logical. Your defense, on the other hand, seems logical.

Edit: I am not sure of my T/F but I'm also quick to defend people. I think this is because I can construct arguments to defend almost any position (some, however, are indefensible or at least seem so). So when I see someone being unreasonably criticised, I can't let the unreasonable stand, criticism aside.
 

Asterion

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I had no reason to defend them, I defend people that I don't even know and I'm usually placing myself in their shoes too, and looking for solutions that bring harmony. I even defend videogame characters... :blush:

Feeling is a rational process, it's a judgement, it's going to be logical.

I actually relate better to the F side than the T, at least in the way that the wikipedia entry reads. Not all to sure whether I can't trust wiki on this, but there was an F description that Mal posted up that I could relate to as well.
 
R

ReflecTcelfeR

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[MENTION=6894]Asterion[/MENTION]

Do you mean: Unbridled mercy?

I mean to say that in looking at what something "truly is" if the situation actually warrants mercy then it would seem that mercy would be given, but that's the ability to assess the situation correctly and understanding completely that situation and its consequences not necessarily a function.
 

strychnine

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Ok, well what you just wrote sounds more F. I will say though that defending people does not necessarily equal F. It sounded to me like your reason to defend them was to uphold the truth, which to me represents justice. But if you are defending them to bring about harmony rather than uphold the truth, that sounds more F than T.
 

Asterion

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[MENTION=6894]Asterion[/MENTION]

Do you mean: Unbridled mercy?

I mean to say that in looking at what something "truly is" if the situation actually warrants mercy then it would seem that mercy would be given, but that's the ability to assess the situation correctly and understanding completely that situation and its consequences not necessarily a function.

I certainly don't like conflict. I often feel sorry for other people, and analyze their situation, what they're going through, compare it to what I would or have felt in similar situations. I've often become friends with people that others avoid simply because I know what they're going through. They're usually outsiders, a little strange, sometimes selfish, stupid assholes, but I overlook that, it's not until one of my mates (ISTJ) told me that those kind of people aren't the kind of people you want to associate with that I started avoiding people like that, that I didn't like as a person in the first place but couldn't abandon because they were abandoned their whole lives.

I think that pretty well seals the deal. I think I have been confusing 5s detached and analytical tendencies for Thinking.
 

wildcat

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I find at my workplace that I'm always the one defending other people from criticism. A select group of co-workers are usually complaining that people are slow and lazy, they're all thinkers. I'm the one saying "wait a minute, that guy is new... of course he's going to be slow, he's adjusting, he's got no friends to motivate him and he's on a lower wage than you".

My brother and friends tell me that I'm quicker to defend other people than I am to defend myself.

Is there such a thing as merciful, MBTI Thinkers?

A good post.

Introverted judgement is extraverted concern.
Extraverted judgement is introverted concern.

Mercy is about the other. Empathy is about oneself.
Fi. Fe.
Respectively.

An analogy.
Ti is about the thing. Te is about application of the thing.

Application.

1. Benefit.
2. Use.
 

Orangey

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I'll defend people when there's a reason to defend them. Often, what people call "criticism" is just a veil (and a thin one, at that) for mean-spiritedness, which can easily be harmful to others and does not come from a reasonable place.

If the criticism is justified, and it's delivered in a straight-forward manner, I have no problem with it.
 

Coriolis

Si vis pacem, para bellum
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I find at my workplace that I'm always the one defending other people from criticism. A select group of co-workers are usually complaining that people are slow and lazy, they're all thinkers. I'm the one saying "wait a minute, that guy is new... of course he's going to be slow, he's adjusting, he's got no friends to motivate him and he's on a lower wage than you".

My brother and friends tell me that I'm quicker to defend other people than I am to defend myself.

Is there such a thing as merciful, MBTI Thinkers?
On MBTI tests, mercy is often contrasted with justice and we are asked which we prefer. As I see it, if there were more true justice, we would have less need for mercy. Mercy is often invoked to temper injustice.

The case of your coworkers' criticisms is too vague to evaluate. I am a thinker, and usually find people slow and lazy, and the ones who do appear hardworking are often working harder, not smarter. I admit, expressed this way it is a subjective judgment, colored by personal bias. On the other hand, when I make such judgments, I already include the knowledge that someone is new, or not feeling well, etc. Perhaps your colleagues are already taking these considerations into account. Perhaps some of your colleagues really are slow or lazy. Complaining about it, however, is not productive. Are the complainers supervisors who can show they employees where they need to improve? Are they coworkers who can encourage their teammates to greater productivity, perhaps by looking at their own example? A complaint may be true, but if it remains just a complaint, no purpose is served.
 

Rasofy

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Maybe that's why I didn't think we were that similar (same mbti+same en tri type+same instinctual variants).
I'm usually not merciful, but sometimes I play devil's advocate. The end result is the same but the focus is very different.
I'm drawn to intellectually stimulating people. Whether or not they are selfish/assholes affects only the degree of trust I have in them them and the ammount of things I'd be willing to reveal about myself.
But if I'm working hard and they are being lazy, I'm gonna get very pissed. :mad: I'm tolerant with beginners though.
 

Southern Kross

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I don't know that I would necessarily call that mercy. That's simply not being judgemental, or jumping to conclusions - it's attempting to consider other possible explanations. I totally do the same thing.

Anyway, when asked if I prefer Justice or Mercy on MBTI tests, I now tend to answer, Justice. [MENTION=6894]Asterion[/MENTION] do you really think you are choosing mercy over justice in your situation? Do you think you're making excuses for someone that's screwing up, or do you think you are being fair and reasonable given the circumstances? :shrug:
 
N

NPcomplete

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I find at my workplace that I'm always the one defending other people from criticism. A select group of co-workers are usually complaining that people are slow and lazy, they're all thinkers. I'm the one saying "wait a minute, that guy is new... of course he's going to be slow, he's adjusting, he's got no friends to motivate him and he's on a lower wage than you".

My brother and friends tell me that I'm quicker to defend other people than I am to defend myself.

Is there such a thing as merciful, MBTI Thinkers?

I don't think I'm particularly merciful. But yes, I'll play devil's advocate, if only to make people see the other side of the story.

Fairness and justice are, in general, more important to me than mercy and making people happy.

:nono:-> :bunnyglee::fairy::emot-emo::hug::bunnyd::saturned:
:yes: -> :bookish::coffee::sherlock::evilgenius::burns:

Delusions, delusions... :hug:

I'm easily :bookish::coffee::sherlock::evilgenius::burns: too, more so than :bunnyglee::fairy::emot-emo::hug::bunnyd::saturned:... :devil:
 

Rasofy

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I'm easily :bookish::coffee::sherlock::evilgenius::burns: too, more so than :bunnyglee::fairy::emot-emo::hug::bunnyd::saturned:... :devil:
I guess I can make an En 5 exception for you. :ninja:

I remember this post on intpforum about how to get along with INFPs (he restricted to female INFPs though):
Assumptions:
1. You are an INTP male, like myself.
2. You are attracted by the opposite sex (yes, I am being heteronormative).
3. You are fascinated by female INFPs especially.
4. You would like to have more things to talk about or amuse INFPs with.
5. You have some things that have worked in the past with said female INFPs.

INFP bait!

http://asofterworld.com/index.php?id=566
Yeah, INFPs seem to love "asofterworld". Something about the dark emotion, the passive aggressiveness, the photos that just barely correlate to the words. I mean, I love it to- but I was introduced to it by an INFP. If you meet an INFP who hasn't heard of it... link them!

Talk about spirituality. Shouldn't be hard to do, but the problem is that many of us INTPs are firmly set in our ways. We have our opinions about religion/spirituality... but you'll do best if you're able to have a more flexible point of view to discuss these kinds of things with her. She'll probably appreciate your interest in hearing her own beliefs (which will not be mainstream).

Funny/absurd hypothetical situations... humor! Things like "oh man, I wish I had slashed the cook's tires; they ran out of vegetarian food today!" Over the top things. Maybe a little but cruel or principle-based. Expect a playful objection "Nooooo", and play on!

Be wary of board games. INFPs like them, but they like them because of the social interaction, not because of the empire-building.
Sounds very unlike me. I wonder if Asterion relates to any of those. :thinking:
[MENTION=6894]Asterion[/MENTION], Do you play board games for the social interaction or for the empire-building? :burns:
 

IZthe411

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Maybe it's age, but nowadays I'm more prone to throw somebody a bone over letting them sink. I don't really find it productive in most cases. That does not mean that they are exempt from the consequences of their actions. There is a difference.
 
A

Anew Leaf

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I guess I can make an En 5 exception for you. :ninja:

I remember this post on intpforum about how to get along with INFPs (he restricted to female INFPs though):

Sounds very unlike me. I wonder if Asterion relates to any of those. :thinking:
[MENTION=6894]Asterion[/MENTION], Do you play board games for the social interaction or for the empire-building? :burns:

EMPIRE BUILDING ALL THE WAY!!

Screw social interaction! I am out for blood.

(but if I lose I will pout and cry and give puppy dog eyes to try and win)


in regards to the OP: I am pretty merciful... I have a relative right now who owes me a giant apology and currently he thinks he can get away with not apologizing. I have privately come to a way to forgive his actions to a point, however, I don't ever want to see him again, and when I had had to see him it galls me to have him act nice to me. Perhaps I haven't truly forgiven him then? Anyways, were he to acknowledge what he did and as for forgiveness, I know that the walls of ice in my heart would melt and I would never look back. However, because he doesn't do this, a part of me still seeks vengeance and justice.
 

Asterion

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I don't know that I would necessarily call that mercy. That's simply not being judgemental, or jumping to conclusions - it's attempting to consider other possible explanations. I totally do the same thing.

Anyway, when asked if I prefer Justice or Mercy on MBTI tests, I now tend to answer, Justice. [MENTION=6894]Asterion[/MENTION] do you really think you are choosing mercy over justice in your situation? Do you think you're making excuses for someone that's screwing up, or do you think you are being fair and reasonable given the circumstances? :shrug:

They are rather similar, but I'm usually focusing on what people feel before I make a decision. I can see that they're not trying, or spacing out when they need to be alert, but I don't tend to make my decisions based on that information. I'm not going to tell them: "hey, you need to pull your finger out, or you're going to get fired", I'd prefer to be gentle and work out a way to bring it to them without making them feel incompetent, alienated and ganged up on. I'll stick up for them to avoid that too, and try to welcome them into the workplace a bit more, because maybe then, they'll absorb the ideals shared by everyone else and gain enough motivation to want to work harder.

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd another INTP bites the dust. :yesss:

[MENTION=13260]Rasofy[/MENTION].... your time.... it be limited.

I think I'm starting to like this a little :vader1:
 
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