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  1. #31
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackwater View Post
    T / Thinking

    Logic over sentiment
    Critical, then supportive
    Decides with head
    Truth before tact
    Sees conflict as natural
    Good at being critical
    At ease with the impersonal
    Seeks to ignore emotion
    Interested in things-then-people
    Often prefer non-fiction

    Sentiment over logic
    Supportive, then critical
    Decides with heart
    Tact before truth
    Takes conflict personally
    Good at being appreciative
    At ease with the personal
    Attach to emotion
    Interested in people-then-things
    Often prefer fiction
    Socially I am considered an "F" from what I have gathered, but I have found the T/F pole to not contain mutually exclusive qualities and the two categories contain internally conflicting characteristics. In this online forum context it mostly comes down to a way of defining people's social behavior more than their thought processes, although the thought processes are assumed to go hand-in-hand with the social behavior. I make decisions focused on reason moreso than the average person, but socially I think it only makes sense to take consequences into account and use tact. Tact and empathy make socialization more efficient and it is entirely possible to make a logical case for prioritizing these qualities. My view is that intentionally dismissing any relevant information is not fully using reason.

    Conflict (social) may be natural, but if you observe it in the political process, online debates, family arguments, or even academia, it so often sends people in a tailspin into the quagmire of absurdity and idiocy. I don't think conflict is that productive, but diplomacy is. Conflict is like doing surgery with a hammer and diplomacy is like a scalpel. However, I find that in a non-social context of idea space examining conflicting theories and data is necessary to progress to more accurate ideas. This does not involve specifically negative feelings, but is neutral and peaceful at least the way I experience it. I have sometimes found this idea of social conflict as a defining feature of T vs F to actually come down to comfort levels with the accepted masculine (anger, pride) vs. feminine (happy, sad) emotions.

    Objectivity and empathy are more alike than opposite because they both require the ability to move outside of the singular perspective of ego, and instead focus on a big picture by taking in as much data as possible. The distinction between the two is that objectivity focuses on data that can be quantified, and empathy is experiential, subjective, and less tangible. Most contexts whether it be a specific situation or analyzing a system, involve a range of relevant factors that encompass the objective and subjective and everything inbetween. It is messy to try to create a hard boundary between these and a hard boundary can only be accomplished by viewing reality in a low resolution and then dismissing anything that doesn't fit your category.

    When "T" or an "F" gets lost in a sense of ego investment in a singular perspective their thinking becomes more alike than polar opposite, and yet that is also the exact moment they feel most different and enter into conflict. The ironies of this pole are interesting because of this.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  2. #32
    Senior Member captain curmudgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackwater View Post
    T / Thinking

    Logic over sentiment
    Critical, then supportive
    Decides with head- depends. most of the time, i suppose.
    Truth before tact -depends. frequently my version of tact is silence, which is why i have a sort of visceral Fi reaction of someone goads me into responding to something I do not wish to do so.
    Sees conflict as natural- i hate conflict...but of course it's natural. why would war/ constant fighting for resources still be so prevalent if it was not?
    Good at being critical
    At ease with the impersonal- huh? examples would help. sensor here.
    Seeks to ignore emotion
    Interested in things-then-people- somewhat
    Often prefer non-fiction- much more when i was a child.

    F / Feeling

    Sentiment over logic
    Supportive, then critical
    Decides with heart
    Tact before truth
    Takes conflict personally
    Good at being appreciative
    At ease with the personal
    Attach to emotion
    Interested in people-then-things
    Often prefer fiction
    I'm a feeler- ISFP.

  3. #33
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Lemme put two antagonists vs each other

    Tact before truth for feelers and Fi

    Something is rotten in Denmark ! xD
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  4. #34
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    T / Thinking

    Logic over sentiment
    Critical, then supportive
    Decides with head
    Truth before tact
    Sees conflict as natural
    Good at being critical
    At ease with the impersonal
    Seeks to ignore emotion
    Interested in things-then-people
    Often prefer non-fiction

    F / Feeling

    Sentiment over logic
    Supportive, then critical
    Decides with heart
    Tact before truth
    Takes conflict personally
    Good at being appreciative
    At ease with the personal
    Attach to emotion
    Interested in people-then-things
    Often prefer fiction


    Not much on the F side here. I guess that shouldn't be surprising...
    You lose.

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    Johari Window|Nohari Window

  5. #35
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Feeler.

    T / Thinking

    Logic over sentiment
    Critical, then supportive
    Decides with head
    Truth before tact (at times)
    Sees conflict as natural
    Good at being critical
    At ease with the impersonal
    Seeks to ignore emotion
    Interested in things-then-people
    Often prefer non-fiction


    F / Feeling

    Sentiment over logic
    Supportive, then critical
    Decides with heart
    Tact before truth
    Takes conflict personally
    Good at being appreciative
    At ease with the personal
    Attach to emotion

    Interested in people-then-things
    Often prefer fiction
    Some of the statements in the T list can apply to those with a strong J; I often notice that about T/F descriptions. E.g. Strong Judgers can be quite truthful and not very tactful because well, they're judgers and have opinions why they think are right and think you should know about. They're often critical as well -- FJs love criticizing and evaluating the actions and behavior of others, it's a favorite pastime. So an FJ with a stronger J than F may seem like a T because they're so seemingly insensitive and critical.

  6. #36
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    I make decisions focused on reason moreso than the average person, but socially I think it only makes sense to take consequences into account and use tact. Tact and empathy make socialization more efficient and it is entirely possible to make a logical case for prioritizing these qualities. My view is that intentionally dismissing any relevant information is not fully using reason.
    I am an inveterate T, but (and?) agree completely, especially with the highlighted.

    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    Conflict (social) may be natural, but if you observe it in the political process, online debates, family arguments, or even academia, it so often sends people in a tailspin into the quagmire of absurdity and idiocy. I don't think conflict is that productive, but diplomacy is.
    Conflict is often necessary for growth. Conflict itself is not the problem, it is how conflict is handled. Conflict in politics and elsewhere is unproductive when people stop focusing on the issue and resort to name-calling, insults, and playing fast and loose with the facts. When people remain respectful of each other, stay focused on the issue, and rely on evidence and reasoning to support their positions, conflict is far less acrimonious and much more productive. This is the proverbial disagreement without being disagreeable. You might call this diplomacy, but I would say diplomacy goes even further than this.

    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    Objectivity and empathy are more alike than opposite because they both require the ability to move outside of the singular perspective of ego, and instead focus on a big picture by taking in as much data as possible. The distinction between the two is that objectivity focuses on data that can be quantified, and empathy is experiential, subjective, and less tangible. Most contexts whether it be a specific situation or analyzing a system, involve a range of relevant factors that encompass the objective and subjective and everything inbetween. It is messy to try to create a hard boundary between these and a hard boundary can only be accomplished by viewing reality in a low resolution and then dismissing anything that doesn't fit your category.
    An interesting observation.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  7. #37
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Lemme put two antagonists vs each other

    Tact before truth for feelers and Fi

    Something is rotten in Denmark ! xD
    Are you saying that Fi users aren't tactful? OMG. These are some extremely passive individuals. Yes, I realize they have the potential to be even very choleric. But just because they can be that doesn't mean they aren't tactful most of the time.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  8. #38
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    Are you saying that Fi users aren't tactful? OMG. These are some extremely passive individuals. Yes, I realize they have the potential to be even very choleric. But just because they can be that doesn't mean they aren't tactful most of the time.
    some extremly passive creatures hahahaha you crack me up xD
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  9. #39
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    some extremly passive creatures hahahaha you crack me up xD
    The biggest, most accurate criticism you can level against the average INFP is that they're too passive. They don't speak up. They often have strongly held beliefs, but they don't make them known.
    You lose.

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    Johari Window|Nohari Window

  10. #40
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    some extremly passive creatures hahahaha you crack me up xD
    You called them 'creatures'? Wow. Just wow.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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