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  1. #1
    Senior Member Blackwater's Avatar
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    Default Introducing S vs. N

    An abstract-minded person, however, would look at the same picture and then conclude that: It is phallic and imposing; it can be viewed as a symbol of fertility; it might have been the wish of the builder to articulate his dominance over other architects or to assert mankind's triumph over nature. In other words, an abstract-minded person would pay heed to all of the non-immediate features of the situation...
    http://www.celebritytypes.com/concrete-vs-abstract.htm
    best collection of philosopher typings online

    http://www.celebritytypes.com/philosophers/

  2. #2
    Senior Member Silveresque's Avatar
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    When I look at that picture, not a single abstract thought comes to mind. It's just a tower. Yet I relate more to the N characteristics than S. In general, I don't make very many random associations, yet I'm not exactly living in the present and paying attention to my surroundings either; I daydream all the time. Would that make me S or N?

  3. #3
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Same as Revis Zero. With most pictures and art forms I see, I rarely think about the underlying symbolism behind it. I appreciate it for what it is. I notice the sensory beauty of it. The closest thing to abstract is that its awe inspiring. But its inspiring to my senses.

    I'm probably an N type overall though.

    I've bolded what particularly fits me in the S and N descriptions and italicized what sort of fits, depending on the circumstances.

    S:

    Concrete
    Realistic

    Prize enjoyment
    Aware of current trends
    Lives in the present
    Often use straight talk
    Aware of surroundings
    Notices details
    Often like crime novels (I'm more interested in those that focus more on big picture issues in society and not so much on minor details, which I think is more N)
    Practical
    Factual
    Observation over imagination
    Often content with status quo
    Make things happen
    Loyal to friends (why is this under S?)

    If American; more likely to be conservative


    N:

    Future-focused
    Sees possibilities
    Prize inspiration

    Aware of own inspiration
    Introspective about the past
    Often use difficult words
    Flighty ideas
    Imaginative
    Often dislike crime novels (If they focus too much on mundane details)
    Reflects but does not always do
    Theoretical
    Imagination over observation
    Often restless with status quo
    Contemplate things
    See both sides

    If American; more likely to be liberal
    INtp
    5w6 or 9w1 sp/so/sx, I think
    Ravenclaw/Hufflepuff
    Neutral Good
    LII-Ne




  4. #4
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    i can't look at anything without becoming aware of possible abstractions. they arise subtly and i don't have to pay attention. they are part of pattern regognition. they don't have to translate into thought-consciousness (words). but i am not so sure abstraction is type related (same for pattern recognition, btw). abstraction is subjectivity related, which is developmentally related. i would assume introverted people may give slightly more conscious time to it. go there for the sake of going there. since introversion=subjectivity. apart from that, type would simply determine the type of abstractions that you form or the direction into which those abstractions or associations go, in the process of their creation. (hence intuitive typologists might not necessarily acknowledge sensor abstractions.) do abstractions go toward psychic nature (Ni), toward organic nature (Si) toward comparative/realistic nature (Se) toward ...idk manipulative (movement/impact/fusion) nature (Ne)? and that's just for abstractions of perceptive nature. thought can be abstract too. concepts are abstractions. understanding a word like "fallacy" (as a type of thinking error) is fairly abstract, but not intuitive/perception related. every estj understands such concepts.

    i must say, imagining Se abstractions is most difficult to me. best thing that comes to mind are signs (toilet, traffic). but Se is not exactly where i am at home, so maybe it's just my inability ...

  5. #5
    Just a statistic rhinosaur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuchIrony View Post
    I've bolded what particularly fits me in the S and N descriptions and italicized what sort of fits, depending on the circumstances.
    Good idea.



    S:
    Concrete (what does this mean?)
    Realistic
    Prize enjoyment
    Aware of current trends
    Lives in the present
    Often use straight talk
    Aware of surroundings
    Notices details
    Often like crime novels
    Practical
    Factual

    Observation over imagination
    Often content with status quo
    Make things happen
    Loyal to friends
    If American; more likely to be conservative

    N:
    Future-focused
    Sees possibilities (who doesn't?)
    Prize inspiration (what does this mean?)
    Aware of own inspiration
    Introspective about the past
    Often use difficult words
    Flighty ideas
    Imaginative

    Often dislike crime novels (If they focus too much on mundane details)
    Reflects but does not always do
    Theoretical
    Imagination over observation
    Often restless with status quo
    Contemplate things
    See both sides
    If American; more likely to be liberal

  6. #6
    Senior Member Silveresque's Avatar
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    S:

    Concrete
    Realistic
    Prize enjoyment
    Aware of current trends
    Lives in the present
    Often use straight talk
    Aware of surroundings
    Notices details
    Often like crime novels
    Practical
    Factual
    Observation over imagination
    Often content with status quo
    Make things happen
    Loyal to friends

    N:

    Future-focused
    Sees possibilities
    Prize inspiration
    Aware of own inspiration
    Introspective about the past
    Often use difficult words
    Flighty ideas
    Imaginative
    Often dislike crime novels
    Reflects but does not always do
    Theoretical
    Imagination over observation
    Often restless with status quo
    Contemplate things
    See both sides

  7. #7
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Default

    I appreciate the section that talks about the drawbacks of being an N. That side needs to be talked about more -- to make sure Ns don't feel like they can do everything Sensors can and more.

    Misleading terms such as "abstraction level" tend to suggest that abstract-minded people can do anything that concrete people can do, but this may be an artifact of the values embedded in the educational system. Education is geared towards the strong suits of abstract-minded people, such as coming up with clever interpretations and using difficult words. However, the real world has equal use of either orientation.

    While having a high degree of abstraction often entails a certain cerebral agility when it comes to discussing abstract ideas, the downside seems to be an increased openness to unsubstantiated, sometimes even bizarre, ideas. In philosophy, for example, there is no end to the amount of societies that have been dreamed up by abstract-minded researchers and which work perfectly on paper, yet do not work in the real world. A classical example to this end is "How would you feed New York City?" While many an abstract-minded person would attempt to come up with a new and better system for supplying NYC with all the food and drink it needs, the only correct answer hitherto proven to be succesful is, "I wouldn't." New York City is fed by a multitude of concrete and realistic people, each keenly perceptive of his or her link in the chain. There is no grand abstract mastermind, nor is there any master plan. Everytime and everywhere such a master plan has been attempted for any free city, the result has been shortages of foodstuffs and a dramatic decrease in the number of different foods available.

    Finally, another drawback of being abstract-minded may be clinging too much to one's intellectual intuition, that is, one's subjective, internal ideas about how things are and what they mean. Many controversies in science and philosphy have been (and are) really about abstract-minded people clinging to their subjective intuitions about how things are rather than weighing the evidence factually and realistically.
    And if we're going to weigh ourselves in terms of this article's definition of S and N...
    S / Concrete:
    Concrete
    Realistic
    Prize enjoyment
    Aware of current trends

    Lives in the present
    Often use straight talk
    Aware of surroundings
    Notices details
    Often like crime novels
    Practical
    Factual

    Observation over imagination
    Often content with status quo
    Make things happen
    Loyal to friends


    N / Abstract:
    Future-focused
    Sees possibilities

    Prize inspiration
    Aware of own inspiration
    Introspective about the past
    Often use difficult words

    Flighty ideas
    Imaginative
    Often dislike crime novels
    Reflects but does not always do
    Theoretical
    Imagination over observation
    Often restless with status quo
    Contemplate things
    See both sides
    I think this definition of Sensing vs. Intuition is actually SJ vs. Intuition. The words they used to describe Sensors didn't seem to associate much with SPs. For example, since when are ISFPs associated with being content with the status quo?
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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  8. #8
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Default

    Using a building as an example is a little murky because it's not really "art" by most definitions. For that tower I tend to think first about function - what its function is, how it is a tourism symbol, how it was engineered, why it was built. I don't know that I would call those things abstract or concrete - they're somewhere in between, I guess. I do not think about how it's made of steel and nuts and bolts or anything like that, lol.
    -end of thread-

  9. #9
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    the image does have art qualities. the tower and the style of the nature/park IS actually art(ificial) and intentionally or not displays the spirit of those who have made it so. the perspective is highlighting aspects of it. there is a thread about another image of the eiffel tower, and some other images somewhere. users describe how they "feel" about those images. verry interesting. i can't find the damn thread.

  10. #10
    All Natural! All Good!
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    It's highly absurd to me that anyone can look at a picture and interpret it literally. On the other hand I would definitely not interpret your picture that way (symbol of fertility*). Instead I might think about why people are so taken by the tower in the first place, what about human psychology and about the tower makes the tower so attractive to us. I mean people flock from everywhere to see that. Why? And why do I personally tend to be uninterested in supposedly beautiful visuals? People will ask me to smell flowers because they supposedly smell good. I am seldom interested in smelling them. Why is that? etc.

    Those kinds of thoughts would happen immediately. I definitely would not stand there like "oooh lol the tower is shiny and the grass is green." I would be tying the tower in to some global/universal idea immediately.

    *I see quite a few things as symptomatic of the general human obsession with fertility. That is not to say all humans are obsessed with it consciously, I just think a lot of people have a subconscious or semi-consious obsession with fertility.
    Strychnine is all-natural,
    So strychnine is all good.
    It's Godly and righteous,
    So eat it, you should.
    Who are you to refuse nature's will?


    Don't use the multiquote; it was planted by the devil to deceive us.

    Social Role: Asscrack/Piece of Shit/Public Defecator/Spiteful Urinator


    A different type everyday - so no need to type me anymore. But feel free to enjoy the sound of your own asscrack.

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