Introducing S vs. N

[King sns]

I thought this was too obvious to explain. Intuitives see both sides of the story; the Sensor in my example sees only one side.

Irony.

 

[Betty Blue]

http://www.celebritytypes.com/concrete-vs-abstract.htm

I was first looking at your avatar befor i noticed the link. I wondered why he was looking down on everyone, why so angry.
Then i noticed the link. Is it possible for anyone to look at the Eiffel tower without seeing it as phallic, domeneering, and power prooving?
Really?

 

[Mal12345]

This is fascinating, because I normally review past conversations, really analyze them. When I am stressed, I can see possibilities for disaster around every corner, and suddenly looking at things with a measured view becomes hard.

That part about being stressed describes tertiary Ne. And even if you're an ISTJ, analysis suggests that Si is your auxiliary and not your dominant.

 

[Mal12345]

Irony.

Yet if you look in LifeTypes under INTP, we are prone to making statements that such and such is "obvious."

Intuitives also love to point out irony.

 

[lunalum]

conclusion:
the real differences between us lie in terms of focus and attentiveness. he is highly present-focused and attuned to the ambient environment. i am highly future-focused and attuned to the conceptual realm.
we are both imaginative, contemplative, dissatisfied with the status quo, practical (i am e6, after all), linguistically sophisticated, motivated by short-term enjoyment, open to multiple sides of issues, and loyal to our friends.

Everybody daydreams, it depends on the content. Consider someone who daydreams about making more money and achieving success, versus daydreaming about galaxies colliding, or unicorns.

Daydreaming about galaxies colliding=could be S or N
Daydreaming about unicorns=could be S or N
Daydreaming about revolutionary new theory about the collision of galaxies creating unicorns, and supernovas being the only powerful enough explosion to create fairydust=more likely N
Daydreaming about about making more money and achieving success by getting somewhere with such a theory= more likely N

When I'm daydreaming I make up fantasy stories, imagine conversations with people or review past conversations, think about typology, etc. Sometimes I imagine that I'm that in an alternate universe or something and everything around me looks different--suddenly the McDonalds I'm sitting in looks like a futuristic cafe on the edge of a cliff on an alien planet.

whereas reviewing past conversations comes automatically when I'm under stress.

This is fascinating, because I normally review past conversations, really analyze them. When I am stressed, I can see possibilities for disaster around every corner, and suddenly looking at things with a measured view becomes hard.

Yep I would say this is a classic difference between Ne/Si and Si/Ne. I'm not sure about the imagining the space cafe thing specifically, as that may happen to anyone who is bored waiting at a McDonalds

Is it possible for anyone to look at the Eiffel tower without seeing it as phallic, domeneering, and power prooving?

I was wondering how anyone could possibly automatically see those things in the Eiffel Tower unless they were recently in a literature or sociology course

Maybe because they are sort of value judgements they would come more natural with an Fi influence, and I think of more mechanical things like "if we made the tower out of a stretchier substance it would make the coolest catapult ever"

That part about being stressed describes tertiary Ne. And even if you're an ISTJ, analysis suggests that Si is your auxiliary and not your dominant.

But isn't the inferior the one that causes the most isssue under stress?

 

[Mal12345]

Yep I would say this is a classic difference between Ne/Si and Si/Ne. I'm not sure about the imagining the space cafe thing specifically, as that may happen to anyone who is bored waiting at a McDonalds

There is exactly 0.0% chance that my boss will dream about any such thing while waiting at a McDonald's.

 

[Orangey]

I was wondering how anyone could possibly automatically see those things in the Eiffel Tower unless they were recently in a literature or sociology course

Maybe because they are sort of value judgements they would come more natural with an Fi influence, and I think of more mechanical things like "if we made the tower out of a stretchier substance it would make the coolest catapult ever"

Eh, I immediately thought of phallic symbolism. I would never think of anything like "if we made the tower out of a stretchier substance it would make the coolest catapult ever" because it sounds like a really lame cutesy joke. I would be obliged to give myself lashings of atonement if I ever said anything like that.

 

[OrangeAppled]

As a feeling dominant type, I definitely would focus on the aesthetic value first & foremost. What feeling-concept does this evoke, and is it significant?
There would be an aspect of being aware of what it symbolizes, but I'm unlikely to analyze that as it will feel obvious. The awareness is more likely to quickly become criteria for evaluating it & what it means in terms of impact on people (people in a vague, general sense), which is where most of my thought will focus. The Eiffel tower being a phallic symbol seems irrelevant in this light. It has stronger associations with a romantic view of Paris & what could happen there that will change your life for the better (fall in love, find yourself, become some kind of artist). So to me, it represents a hope & a dream for people now more than fertility, although you could vaguely link those with fertility (new birth, creating something, joining with another person, etc).

In a way, I will see something as its literal, physical state, because that allows me to remove its assigned function/identity and re-imagine a new one for it. I actually thought that was very Ne. The focus is still on what something can become over what it currently is.

The downside to this is that inability to just BE in a moment. There's also often a slight discontent with what exists as improvement & change is constantly being suggested mentally. But I don't miss the aesthetic appeal of things at least. I can definitely be very "ooh, shiny!", but then I'm imagining what it would be like if it were a bit more perfect, or I wonder why it appeals to me & what that means, etc.

 

[strychnine]

That sounds about right. Imagining alternate realities is something I have to make a conscious effort to do, whereas reviewing past conversations comes automatically when I'm under stress.

I get flooded with negative past conversations during stress. Every stupid, embarrassing, cringe-worthy thing I said comes back to me. The rest of the time, the past hardly registers. I couldn't recall most of this stuff if I tried, but under stress, I get flooded by it. This of course stresses me out further, which amplifies the flooding, ... --> disaster.

 

[Silveresque]

I get flooded with negative past conversations during stress. Every stupid, embarrassing, cringe-worthy thing I said comes back to me. The rest of the time, the past hardly registers. I couldn't recall most of this stuff if I tried, but under stress, I get flooded by it. This of course stresses me out further, which amplifies the flooding, ... --> disaster.

This is exactly how it is for me too. Hmm...if you use Si, wouldn't that make you ENxP? Then you would be Si inferior, which could explain why you say normally the past hardly registers.

 

[skylights]

when i look at the eiffel tower i think about how paris is the "city of light" and how it looks like it's reaching up and shooting to the heavens. i don't get all this phallic imagery.

on the other hand:

GIANT PENIS

 

[Owfin]

when i look at the eiffel tower i think about how paris is the "city of light" and how it looks like it's reaching up and shooting to the heavens. i don't get all this phallic imagery.

on the other hand:

GIANT PENIS

You intutives and your dirty minds...

What I thought from that picture was "Interesting composition. Not what I would have chosen, but interesting."

 

[Qlip]

I looked at the pic and didn't think anything. The interpretation of what that means is that to me there is nothing intriguing about this picture of the Eiffel tower. The example should be more provocative.

 

[King sns]

Okay, I'll bite- I'm more of a function than dichotomy girl. When I looked at the Eiffel Tower I wasn't thinking of all these intellectual historical associations, (or whatever the blurb said) or the way it was built and it's physical features, that would be lame. I actually didn't think of the Eiffel Tower at all. It's kind of boring in itself, honestly. I started thinking of a bunch of French related stuff and made up a funny little play in my head with puppets in front of the Eiffel tower falling in love and saying "ouioui!" a lot and a bunch of other things- when am I going to France? What am I doing with my life? Weird French movies that I can't remember the name of, etc. (And then I had to go back and read the blurb again because it was one of those situations where you physically read something but were thinking of something else.) So yeah.. As for the bolded.

Concrete
Realistic
Prize enjoyment.
Aware of current trends
Lives in the present (or some alteration of.)
Often use straight talk
Aware of surroundings
Notices details
Often like crime novels
Practical
Factual
Observation over imagination
Often content with status quo (not really, too lazy to be active against it though......)
Make things happen
Loyal to friends (mentally, not physically- can be friends with someone but not see them too much.)

If American; more likely to be conservative


N / Abstract

Future-focused
Sees possibilities
Prize inspiration
Aware of own inspiration
Introspective about the past (Si!)
Often use difficult words- I did this as a kid- now I feel like I just make up silly words to get my point across.
Flighty ideas- in phases only
Imaginative
Often dislike crime novels
Reflects but does not always do
Theoretical- Not often in the sense they talk about it on this site
Imagination over observation
Often restless with status quo (but too lazy to act on it- yeah.)
Contemplate things (Sounds like could go for either dichotomy. I am more about the contemplation than the action.)
See both sides

If American; more likely to be liberal

I had more comments but they are all dichotomy related/ probably already implied.

 

[King sns]

Huh. When I thought about the status quo I was thinking about politics for some reason and totally disregarded any other kind of status quo. My status quo stuff meant "I'm not in the Occupy movement in New York dressing up as part of a nativity scene." (Yeah, I laughed really hard when I saw that on the news. Damn N's with their ideas!)

Anyway, regarding regular old status quo, I don't think I even notice it. I have my own life status quo and I only realize others when I'm exposed to it- and normally, in those circumstances, it truly disturbs me. But what is that anyway? It's an elusive term. Thanks for the thread idea.

 

[jixmixfix]

when i look at the eiffel tower i think about how paris is the "city of light" and how it looks like it's reaching up and shooting to the heavens. i don't get all this phallic imagery.

on the other hand:

GIANT PENIS

I see it more as a giant vibrator dildo.

 

[Anew Leaf]

http://www.celebritytypes.com/concrete-vs-abstract.htm

I looked at the picture and thought "Hey, I was there. Neato."

Let's look at your list for S:

Concrete

What does this mean? Sounds kind of ambiguous to me. Are you suggesting that S's are made out of cement and aggregate? Or do mean that they are Con-Cretians? What if some of them are Pro-Crete?

Realistic

All I can think of is that they AREN'T Pinocchios.

Prize enjoyment

So... N's are sado-masochists who write emo poetry and hit them selves with cat-o-nine tails? Intriguing. I could buy this one.

Aware of current trends

Of what? Tide changes? Clothing? Which streets have construction on them at which time and therefore they avoid those streets in order to not get stuck in traffic?

Lives in the present

Huh? Where else can any of us live. WTF... DID THE OTHER N's INVENT TIME TRAVEL AND NOT SHARE WITH ME?!?!!?!?!

Often use straight talk

How do we measure "straight" talk? With the ruler of S-ness?

Aware of surroundings

What is there to be aware of other than: Here I be?

Notices details

I notice Details. Especially when she wears a low cut dress and short skirt.

Often like crime novels

If there is a conflict in a story (and most should) then it's a crime of some sort.

Practical

I think T types of either sex of S or N can be considered practical. I have an ISFP friend where the word "practical" would arrive practically last in a list of her attributes.

Factual

Again, I would suggest that this would be more of a "T" trait than S versus N. Just spend ten minutes reading some of the INTPs who post on here.

Observation over imagination

What does this even mean? Are S's gifted with an extra organ whereupon what they think does not arrive in the land of imagination? To observe you must employ imagination to make the present come alive.

Often content with status quo

No, I think HUMANS are often content with the status quo.

Make things happen

What does this mean? Make what happen? Cupcakes? Is it cupcakes? OMG TELL ME ITS CUPCAKSES!!!

Loyal to friends

Oh yes, because the N motto is "True friends stab you in the front." (Often REPEATEDLY because us N's are tricksy like that.) May I remind you that you................ CAN'T SPELL "FRIEND" WITHOUT AN "N"!!!!

If American; more likely to be conservative

This has about the same scientific merit that socionics does when it pretends to be able to identify types based on face shape.



And let's see what is going on with us Magical, Non Loyal, and load bearing N's:

Future-focused

*gazes into distance* Yes, I predict I get one rep comment for this post that says LOL.

Sees possibilities

I possibly see possibilities but it could possibly take far too long to make them possible or impossible based on how probable the odds are.

Prize inspiration

Actually I would prefer Prize: Pulitzer or Nobel. But I guess I can take inspiration. Does it pay anything? I haz cupcakes to buy!

Aware of own inspiration

Fuck yeah I am. Hahaha, poor S's! You toil away in the bunny coin fields of humanity with nary a vision or ability to sense your own perspiring inspiration! Hahahahhaa... P.S. Are you feeling inspired to bake me some cupcakes?

Introspective about the past

I like to reenact Gettysburg. Does that count?

Often use difficult words

Hmm *squints eyes* Off-ten uze diff-I-cult wurrrrrddddzzzzz.

Flighty ideas

I will have you know that my ideas are UNICORNS NOT PEGASI. (Unicorns are sans wings!)

Imaginative

I mag in a Tive? Actually I mag in a bed.

Often dislike crime novels

It's true. I like novels where nothing happens instead.

Reflects but does not always do

N= Mirror? Wut?

Theoretical

Theoretically I am thinking of something else right now. Theoretically I am mocking humanity's existence right now. Theoretically I really want some damn cupcakes already.

Imagination over observation

I imagine that I am sitting in a chair at my desk observing my computer monitor.

Often restless with status quo

More like "often restless when veins are flowing with sugar." I NEED CUPCAKES STAT.

Contemplate things

I don't like contemplating "things". I like to contemplate "verbs" because they do stuff.

See both sides

It's easy to see both sides if you turn it in your hands.

If American; more likely to be liberal

Again.... not really scientific so no.

Edit: My future gazing proved accurate for I have received exactly ONE REP COMMENT SAYING "LOL"!!! Any future possible rep comments will have to be tweaked slightly differently than "LOL" to avoid making the universe implode. Just sayin'.

 

[strychnine]

This is exactly how it is for me too. Hmm...if you use Si, wouldn't that make you ENxP? Then you would be Si inferior, which could explain why you say normally the past hardly registers.

I have a lot of traits of inferior Si, and very few of inferior Ni, so I could well be ENP (I know the EP part for sure). I have also decided that I probably have the Ti-Fe axis and not the Fi-Te one. But I can't see Ne in myself at all, really. I think my functional order is like: Ti = Fe >> Si but I can't see any Pe. lol, I'm so confused.

 

[Lexus]

S:

Concrete
Realistic
Prize enjoyment
Aware of current trends
Lives in the present
Often use straight talk
Aware of surroundings
Notices details
Often like crime novels (the last 6 books I purchased were crime novels..or murder mystery)
Practical
Factual
Observation over imagination
Often content with status quo
Make things happen
Loyal to friends

If American; more likely to be conservative
ultranationalist

N:

Future-focused
Sees possibilities
Prize inspiration
Aware of own inspiration
Introspective about the past
Often use difficult words
Flighty ideas
Imaginative
Often dislike crime novels (If they focus too much on mundane details)
Reflects but does not always do
Theoretical
Imagination over observation
Often restless with status quo
Contemplate things
See both sides (but I don't fully care about both sides)

If American; more likely to be liberal

as for the Eiffel tower (I get what it means in general, the post anyways), I see it as an object of metal in Paris, tourist attraction, and it reminds me of WW2 and those photos I saw of the Germans in it. A prize to be won for some, and a useless heap of steel for others. Then I think of the tower of Babel and an attempt to create something beyond man, to the heavens, or to exceed limitations and that this was maybe some attempt to strike against the limitations of one's mind, soul or even law itself; be it government or in life. Then I laugh; "what a waste, alcohol can help you exceed limitations faster".

 

[Silveresque]

I have a lot of traits of inferior Si, and very few of inferior Ni, so I could well be ENP (I know the EP part for sure). I have also decided that I probably have the Ti-Fe axis and not the Fi-Te one. But I can't see Ne in myself at all, really. I think my functional order is like: Ti = Fe >> Si but I can't see any Pe. lol, I'm so confused.

Hmm...That is confusing. I'm not sure what to say. Maybe Fe-dom with weak tertiary...Or maybe a Ti-Si loop, but that would only work if you were an introvert...Maybe you've got some kind of crow's nest thing going using Si instead of Se as your dominant? My function order is confusing too. I think it goes something like Si-Fi=Ti-Ni...