User Tag List

12 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 18

Thread: Stereotyping

  1. #1
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    MBTI
    IxTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ti
    Posts
    13,993

    Default Stereotyping

    Can someone please explain to me where the stereotyping occurs in the MBTI? Or the Enneagram for that matter? At least define "stereotyping."
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  2. #2
    Riva
    Guest

    Default

    If not for stereotyping why distinguish between different types of personalities in the 1st place?

    This also applies to enneagrams and other tests.

    So while 'someone' is 'explaining' the OP, try to explain how personality types could survive if not for stereotyping.

    ---

    Oh wait, I have reasons myself.

    ---

    keeps the post anyway.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    MBTI
    IxTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ti
    Posts
    13,993

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Riva View Post
    If not for stereotyping why distinguish between different types of personalities in the 1st place?

    This also applies to enneagrams and other tests.

    So while 'someone' is 'explaining' the OP, try to explain how personality types could survive if not for stereotyping.

    ---

    Oh wait, I have reasons myself.

    ---

    keeps the post anyway.
    I think you just need an example of a complaint about stereotyping:

    "See I'm glad you're posting instead of the multitude on here who insist that the stereotypes are what decide [on type - Mal]. As a newcomer I used to think that thinkers didn't feel as much as feelers, but I've learned that isn't true--it's just how you handle it instinctively."

    Is there a problem in the logic here? What exactly am I seeing?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  4. #4
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    enfp
    Enneagram
    6w7 sp/sx
    Socionics
    IEE
    Posts
    6,748

    Default

    Stereotypes simply lack balance and in the case of this forum, are placed more heavily/harshly on some types than others. So while some are considered humans with depth, others appear to be two dimensional bots. Everyone uses all the functions, (or in your case Mal, if you're not thinking along the lines of JCF), everyone still lands on a spectrum. Virtually everyone. So calling people by extremes of behavior is a total cop out and requires very little thought and true analysis. The system and the stereotypes elminate all the "whys?" of behavior. I find the "whys" are more important than the labels themselves. In some cases, there is genuine stereotypical behavior resulting from types. But almost everyone has depth or potential for depth. For me, it's more fun to talk about that end of things and slower but more accurate at the end of the day.

    (Oh, and if you're trying to type mass amounts of people stereotypes are a bit easier, that's what the system is for. Better for groups than individuals.)
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

    My Nohari
    My Johari
    by sns.

  5. #5
    garbage
    Guest

    Default

    Initial thoughts.

    Generalizing and simplifying through categories is very, very useful, but only to a certain extent. We all make sense of the world through categorizations and all, but we should also know well enough when nuances in the definitions of those categories don't fit in individual members of those categories. To most people, "stereotyping" probably means "taking a category's definition too far in describing individuals." "Too far" is pretty subjective and based upon individual understanding of the categorical system, though.

    Certain typology systems are structured in a way that try to explain too much. They're precise and logically coherent, but that says next to nothing about how they'd fare when brought to the "real world."


    My favorite phenomenon is when people insist that everyone falls strictly within a particular type and argue types of certain individuals to death, yet they frequently change their own self-typing, presumably because they discover another aspect of themselves and try to explain it through a different type. (If you are so flexible and forgiving with your self-understanding, why aren't you so in your understanding of others?)

  6. #6
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    MBTI
    IxTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ti
    Posts
    13,993

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    Stereotypes simply lack balance and in the case of this forum, are placed more heavily/harshly on some types than others. So while some are considered humans with depth, others appear to be two dimensional bots. Everyone uses all the functions, (or in your case Mal, if you're not thinking along the lines of JCF), everyone still lands on a spectrum. Virtually everyone. So calling people by extremes of behavior is a total cop out and requires very little thought and true analysis. The system and the stereotypes elminate all the "whys?" of behavior. I find the "whys" are more important than the labels themselves. In some cases, there is genuine stereotypical behavior resulting from types. But almost everyone has depth or potential for depth. For me, it's more fun to talk about that end of things and slower but more accurate at the end of the day.

    (Oh, and if you're trying to type mass amounts of people stereotypes are a bit easier, that's what the system is for. Better for groups than individuals.)
    The statement was, "See I'm glad you're posting instead of the multitude on here who insist that the stereotypes are what decide [on type - Mal]." You say stereotypes lack balance. Is balance required in deciding on type? No.

    Here is an example of stereotyping:

    "All Mexicans have black hair and brown eyes."

    Certainly that is not a balanced view of Mexicans, and I myself have known some with blue or green eyes. Stereotyping also refuses to recognize distinctions, as if to say "all Mexicans are the same."

    And indeed, there is an innately racial and very human background for this. Anybody of any race or culture who enters a foreign culture is going to omit the details. Those come with openness to mentally absorb the distinctions.

    Anybody who hasn't had this experience of culture shock won't have any idea what I'm talking about and will likely think it can't apply to them. That is false.

    But how is this an issue for typology? I've seen it declared to be an issue, but I have no idea how it came to be an issue in the 20 years since I last delved into the subject this deeply.

    I agree with everything you say above, but I can't apply it back to the question of determining type.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  7. #7
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    enfp
    Enneagram
    6w7 sp/sx
    Socionics
    IEE
    Posts
    6,748

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    The statement was, "See I'm glad you're posting instead of the multitude on here who insist that the stereotypes are what decide [on type - Mal]." You say stereotypes lack balance. Is balance required in deciding on type? No.

    Here is an example of stereotyping:

    "All Mexicans have black hair and brown eyes."

    Certainly that is not a balanced view of Mexicans, and I myself have known some with blue or green eyes. Stereotyping also refuses to recognize distinctions, as if to say "all Mexicans are the same."

    And indeed, there is an innately racial and very human background for this. Anybody of any race or culture who enters a foreign culture is going to omit the details. Those come with openness to mentally absorb the distinctions.

    Anybody who hasn't had this experience of culture shock won't have any idea what I'm talking about and will likely think it can't apply to them. That is false.

    But how is this an issue for typology? I've seen it declared to be an issue, but I have no idea how it came to be an issue in the 20 years since I last delved into the subject this deeply.

    I agree with everything you say above, but I can't apply it back to the question of determining type.
    Meh, answer to this question is obvious to me, so I won't elaborate too much, but yes. Balance is important when typing individuals. If you use the stereotype for ESTJ you may target a larger portion of ESTJ's than you do for say, ISFP's. But all in all each individual has their own set of behaviors and thought processes and over the course of typing someone (starting with the stereotypes in the beginning and working your way down to the nitty gritty) the answer often changes.
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

    My Nohari
    My Johari
    by sns.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    MBTI
    IxTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ti
    Posts
    13,993

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    Meh, answer to this question is obvious to me, so I won't elaborate too much, but yes. Balance is important when typing individuals. If you use the stereotype for ESTJ you may target a larger portion of ESTJ's than you do for say, ISFP's. But all in all each individual has their own set of behaviors and thought processes and over the course of typing someone (starting with the stereotypes in the beginning and working your way down to the nitty gritty) the answer often changes.
    Therefore you're not deciding on a type. You're searching for an ideal called "balance" and instead, the result is confusion ("the answer often changes").

    And that's exactly why the poster I quoted can't determine her type. In avoiding the evils (as if) of stereotyping, she has failed to find her own type.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  9. #9
    morose bourgeoisie
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    3,859

    Default

    This is why typology is a limited exercise.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    MBTI
    IxTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ti
    Posts
    13,993

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nebbykoo View Post
    This is why typology is a limited exercise.
    I went looking for the most innocuous definition of "stereotype" possible, and found this: "A stereotype is used to categorize a group of people." (That's not a proper definition, but then, UrbanDictionary is not a proper dictionary.)

    What it really boils down to is that personality is not a person's essence. And stereotyping does not get down to essence. A type is the essence of personality, distilled down to the most basic traits (the Enneagram uses primary motivations). The mystical part tells us that this is not the essence of you.

    Avoiding stereotyping (i.e., lumping oneself into a group having the same name because of traits held in common) is not getting to the essence of you either. In fact, it is not even typology. I think, in the long run, it is just the PC movement getting in the way and creating only confusion.

    I agree that if stereotyping is a bad idea then we should get rid of it, and also, eliminate typology. This still doesn't achieve essence, but it certainly does make us feel superior.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

Similar Threads

  1. MBTI stereotypes
    By erm in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 134
    Last Post: 06-15-2015, 07:07 AM
  2. [MBTItm] Sensors, how do you react to stereotypes?
    By labyrinthine in forum The SP Arthouse (ESFP, ISFP, ESTP, ISTP)
    Replies: 54
    Last Post: 02-01-2010, 08:34 AM
  3. [JCF] Blinded By Gender Stereotypes
    By "?" in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 12-08-2008, 03:22 PM
  4. New York stereotypes
    By Oso Mocoso in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: 06-07-2008, 06:38 AM
  5. Please... Stereotype!
    By miss fortune in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 01-27-2008, 05:46 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO