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  1. #101
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    I have developed quite strong Fe and learned to regulate it with my Si reasonably well.

    This whole developing functions coming with age, thats not the case with alot of people and doesent happen automatically.

    That INTPs continuing their quest for logical purity is also false stereotype, only those who fail to develope their inferior and are one sidedly developed do that, properly developed turn more Fe kind of people. My Extreme activities and art stuff(that you link with Si) i started when i was 10-15(have lost my interest on extreme sports years ago already) and my cannabis breeding times were like 5 years ago..

    And you are in your thirties wtf, i thought you were under 20
    Older (and wiser) than thirties. Of course you had to end with a slam, I guess.

    I linked traditionalism, not extreme sports, with Si in a post above here. I was telling Saturned that if she has inferior Si then that just means she's a non-traditionalist. The ISFP and ISTP, who are Se auxiliaries, like that kind of excitement, not necessarily extreme sports. And I know an INTJ who was into extreme mountain-climbing.

    The word "stereotyping" is stupid and needs to stay in the PC realm. All typology is concerned with pure types. The description of the INTP in LifeTypes is not going to include the mixed bag that we all are. The behavior of functions in psychology is an ideal, not necessarily real.

    However, I don't share your contempt for functions tests. Most people who take one already know their type. And the results I have seen more or less reflect what function theory predicts. I would not throw out a result because it does NOT justify function theory, which is all you are doing. That is a circular logical fallacy which seeks only to justify the conclusion that function theory comes from God Himself in the person of Carl Jung.

    I went through my "religious" dogmatic period 25 years ago, and eventually you'll get over yours too.

    So far in function test results that I've seen, the function that is supposedly the Inferior ends up at the bottom of the results, or second from it. Since I've seen a great number of results posted over time, I find there is great predictive power in that and I wouldn't ignore it. But if there is an anomalous result, as when an INTJ arrives at Ti as the highest result, then this is worth looking into and is not a result to contemptuously throw in the recycle bin.

    But as always there are caveats with any test that are worth looking out for. For example,
    http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?t...s_in_socionics
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
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  2. #102
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    Why do you suspect that?



    Function development doesent work like that.

    You develop tert to handle conflict between dom and inferior and to give new perspective where both can be valued as equals and to regulate the strong will of the inferior etc.
    Jung didn't talk about tertiaries. You're stuck in the past like some literal-interpretation Bible-thumper. Basically all you do around here is bash people over the head with your Jung bible.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  3. #103
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    Older (and wiser) than thirties. Of course you had to end with a slam, I guess.

    I linked traditionalism, not extreme sports, with Si in a post above here. I was telling Saturned that if she has inferior Si then that just means she's a non-traditionalist. The ISFP and ISTP, who are Se auxiliaries, like that kind of excitement, not necessarily extreme sports. And I know an INTJ who was into extreme mountain-climbing.

    The word "stereotyping" is stupid and needs to stay in the PC realm. All typology is concerned with pure types. The description of the INTP in LifeTypes is not going to include the mixed bag that we all are. The behavior of functions in psychology is an ideal, not necessarily real.

    However, I don't share your contempt for functions tests. Most people who take one already know their type. And the results I have seen more or less reflect what function theory predicts. I would not throw out a result because it does NOT justify function theory, which is all you are doing. That is a circular logical fallacy which seeks only to justify the conclusion that function theory comes from God Himself in the person of Carl Jung.

    I went through my "religious" dogmatic period 25 years ago, and eventually you'll get over yours too.

    So far in function test results that I've seen, the function that is supposedly the Inferior ends up at the bottom of the results, or second from it. Since I've seen a great number of results posted over time, I find there is great predictive power in that and I wouldn't ignore it. But if there is an anomalous result, as when an INTJ arrives at Ti as the highest result, then this is worth looking into and is not a result to contemptuously throw in the recycle bin.

    But as always there are caveats with any test that are worth looking out for. For example,
    http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?t...s_in_socionics
    How are you sure that you arent just projecting this dogmaticism onto me? I know that my current knowledge isnt complete and is subject for change, however quite alot of it i am able to explain in other ways also, like my(and jungs) idea of extraversion i can explain using neuropsychology. These stereotypes that you think are the only truth are debunked by the information that i have about typology and psychology in general. So even if im sure that your view is wrong, how come it makes me a religious dogmatic? On the other hand you seem to be the one who are unable to explain your view and only build it on descriptions, which is totally useless and the main reason why MBTI isnt taken seriously in field of psychology, it only describes, but doesent explain.

    Using jungs typology on the other hand it does explain alot and tries to describe as little as possible, thats because jung was a real psychiatrist, isabel myers didnt have any sort of training on psychology and just based her views of typology on porrly understood jungs work and personal experience with people.

    At least i have studied these stereotypes of typology(aka MBTI and others) ALOT, so i got quite good understanding on them, so my view on what you say isnt just based on blind bias because i have learned other stuff, but you on the other hand didnt even know that jung did talk about tert function and it has really important function in his typology. Not to mention that tert works as the transcendent function, which is one of the most important concepts of jungs whole analytical psychology..
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  4. #104
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    WARNING! Be careful not to get stuck in Fe-Se loops, or whatever, guys. Because typologically, that is not the proper way to develop character, because, you see,






    shit, I didn't see the new thread about dom-tert loops. now this post looks like an insult, when I didn't mean it as such. carry on,

  5. #105
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    How are you sure that you arent just projecting this dogmaticism onto me? I know that my current knowledge isnt complete and is subject for change, however quite alot of it i am able to explain in other ways also, like my(and jungs) idea of extraversion i can explain using neuropsychology. These stereotypes that you think are the only truth are debunked by the information that i have about typology and psychology in general. So even if im sure that your view is wrong, how come it makes me a religious dogmatic? On the other hand you seem to be the one who are unable to explain your view and only build it on descriptions, which is totally useless and the main reason why MBTI isnt taken seriously in field of psychology, it only describes, but doesent explain.

    Using jungs typology on the other hand it does explain alot and tries to describe as little as possible, thats because jung was a real psychiatrist, isabel myers didnt have any sort of training on psychology and just based her views of typology on porrly understood jungs work and personal experience with people.

    At least i have studied these stereotypes of typology(aka MBTI and others) ALOT, so i got quite good understanding on them, so my view on what you say isnt just based on blind bias because i have learned other stuff, but you on the other hand didnt even know that jung did talk about tert function and it has really important function in his typology. Not to mention that tert works as the transcendent function, which is one of the most important concepts of jungs whole analytical psychology..
    Some months ago you stated on this forum that Jung had no theory of tertiaries. He covered dominants, auxiliaries, and inferiors, but not tertiaries. So if you have learned differently since that post, I will definitely need a cite. Perhaps you were saying he had no theory of tert loops. But I would still be interested in knowing what Jung had to say about tertiaries, because I don't recall reading anything about it in Psychological Types.

    You are only using neuropsychological findings to justify a view you already dogmatically hold to.

    Jung was definitely better at creating obscurity than Myers. You should be thankful to Myers and Briggs for popularizing a difficult subject. Of course they reduced it to simple terms and tossed in some assumptions.

    I'm not against "JCF" per se (I'm sure "JCF" was the wrong term so substitute whatever is correct without going on for pages crowing about how I was "wrong"). I have found "JCF" difficult to use for typing others, while I also watch others floundering around aimlessly with "JCF" on these forums. So perhaps there was good reason for creating an "MBTI" (yes, I know that's just the abbreviation for their test, so don't go on for pages crowing about how I was "wrong" again).
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  6. #106
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    Some months ago you stated on this forum that Jung had no theory of tertiaries. He covered dominants, auxiliaries, and inferiors, but not tertiaries. So if you have learned differently since that post, I will definitely need a cite. Perhaps you were saying he had no theory of tert loops. But I would still be interested in knowing what Jung had to say about tertiaries, because I don't recall reading anything about it in Psychological Types.

    You are only using neuropsychological findings to justify a view you already dogmatically hold to.

    Jung was definitely better at creating obscurity than Myers. You should be thankful to Myers and Briggs for popularizing a difficult subject. Of course they reduced it to simple terms and tossed in some assumptions.

    I'm not against "JCF" per se (I'm sure "JCF" was the wrong term so substitute whatever is correct without going on for pages crowing about how I was "wrong"). I have found "JCF" difficult to use for typing others, while I also watch others floundering around aimlessly with "JCF" on these forums. So perhaps there was good reason for creating an "MBTI" (yes, I know that's just the abbreviation for their test, so don't go on for pages crowing about how I was "wrong" again).
    Quote Originally Posted by http://www.nyaap.org/jung-lexicon/a
    Auxiliary function
    -A helpful second or third function, according to Jung’s model of typology, that has a co-determining influence on consciousness.
    Tertium non datur
    The reconciling "third," not logically foreseeable, characteristic of a resolution in a conflict situation when the tension between opposites has been held in consciousness. (See also transcendent function.)

    As a rule it occurs when the analysis has constellated the opposites so powerfully that a union or synthesis of the personality becomes an imperative necessity. . . . [This situation] requires a real solution and necessitates a third thing in which the opposites can unite. Here the logic of the intellect usually fails, for in a logical antithesis there is no third. The "solvent" can only be of an irrational nature. In nature the resolution of opposites is always an energic process: she acts symbolically in the truest sense of the word, doing something that expresses both sides, just as a waterfall visibly mediates between above and below.["The Conjunction," CW 14, par. 705.]
    But yea its true that there isnt much info about third in psychological types, but jung did mention transcendent function in it, which is related to third.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  7. #107
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    But yea its true that there isnt much info about third in psychological types, but jung did mention transcendent function in it, which is related to third.
    That is quite literally Ubermenschean. It sounds like the tertiary for Jung is the transcendent Unknown.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  8. #108
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    But yea its true that there isnt much info about third in psychological types, but jung did mention transcendent function in it, which is related to third.
    That is quite literally Ubermenschean. It sounds like the tertiary for Jung is the transcendent Unknown.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  9. #109
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    That is quite literally Ubermenschean. It sounds like the tertiary for Jung is the transcendent Unknown.
    I dont understand what you are trying to say, but if you got access to pubmed, i suggest reading this article: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17970938
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  10. #110
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    WARNING! Be careful not to get stuck in Fe-Se loops, or whatever, guys. Because typologically, that is not the proper way to develop character, because, you see,






    shit, I didn't see the new thread about dom-tert loops. now this post looks like an insult, when I didn't mean it as such. carry on,
    I dont have Se, my S is introverted, so dont worry about that
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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