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  1. #1
    Member ChrisC99's Avatar
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    Default Comparing tertiary-strong Fi/Te's and Ti/Fe's...

    Hey there, hi there, ho there fellow personalitie denizens!! Hope y'all had a grand Thanksgiving

    It seems to me that folks with an auxiliary Fi but a strong tertiary Te could superficially resemble people with a Ti as their auxiliary and a highly-developed Fe as their tertiary. Both would be seen as people skilled in relating to others and evaluating their decisions in the analytical as well as the emotional sense.

    So my question is, what would be the best way to still distinguish the two? If a person has well-developed their thinking and feeling functions, what's a sure-fire way to see which is still the auxiliary versus the tertiary...or which is based internally versus externally?

  2. #2
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    One way is that the auxiliary is going to be more authoritative and confident, while the tertiary is a bit more "childlike" or about finding relief, and also more vulnerable.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

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    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Aux isnt authorative, but more of guiding dom.
    Tert isnt about seeking for relief, needing relief or giving relief on everything you feel amxious about, but giving relief(or answer/new helpful perspective) on problems with inferior and giving some control over inferior.

    Also aux is more conscious than tert, you have more control over it, but it can also misbehave unless you have learned how to use it(which usually happens in late teens/early adulthood, but can happen earlier or later, depending on the person and situations).

    Tertium non datur

    The reconciling "third," not logically foreseeable, characteristic of a resolution in a conflict situation when the tension between opposites has been held in consciousness. (See also transcendent function.)

    As a rule it occurs when the analysis has constellated the opposites so powerfully that a union or synthesis of the personality becomes an imperative necessity. . . . [This situation] requires a real solution and necessitates a third thing in which the opposites can unite. Here the logic of the intellect usually fails, for in a logical antithesis there is no third. The "solvent" can only be of an irrational nature. In nature the resolution of opposites is always an energic process: she acts symbolically in the truest sense of the word, doing something that expresses both sides, just as a waterfall visibly mediates between above and below.["The Conjunction," CW 14, par. 705.]
    This tension between opposites is basically conflict between dom and inferior. Ego tries to reject what opposes it and dom is more in ego, so it tries to reject what inferior tells you and repress it in the unconscious. But when the message from inferior is strong enough, ego is unable to keep inferior instincts completely out of consciousness, so it leaks out to consciousness and causes problems.

    This is what the tert works as when resolving the conflict between dom and inferior(but this happens with other conflicts between ego and shadow when resolving them):
    Transcendent function

    A psychic function that arises from the tension between consciousness and the unconscious and supports their union. (See also opposites and tertium non datur.)

    When there is full parity of the opposites, attested by the ego’s absolute participation in both, this necessarily leads to a suspension of the will, for the will can no longer operate when every motive has an equally strong countermotive. Since life cannot tolerate a standstill, a damming up of vital energy results, and this would lead to an insupportable condition did not the tension of opposites produce a new, uniting function that transcends them. This function arises quite naturally from the regression of libido caused by the blockage.[Ibid., par. 824.]

    The tendencies of the conscious and the unconscious are the two factors that together make up the transcendent function. It is called "transcendent" because it makes the transition from one attitude to another organically possible.["The Transcendent Function," CW 8, par. 145.]

    In a conflict situation, or a state of depression for which there is no apparent reason, the development of the transcendent function depends on becoming aware of unconscious material. This is most readily available in dreams, but because they are so difficult to understand Jung considered the method of active imagination-giving "form" to dreams, fantasies, etc.–to be more useful.

    Once the unconscious content has been given form and the meaning of the formulation is understood, the question arises as to how the ego will relate to this position, and how the ego and the unconscious are to come to terms. This is the second and more important stage of the procedure, the bringing together of opposites for the production of a third: the transcendent function. At this stage it is no longer the unconscious that takes the lead, but the ego.[Ibid., par. 181.]

    This process requires an ego that can maintain its standpoint in face of the counterposition of the unconscious. Both are of equal value. The confrontation between the two generates a tension charged with energy and creates a living, third essence.

    From the activity of the unconscious there now emerges a new content, constellated by thesis and antithesis in equal measure and standing in a compensatory relation to both. It thus forms the middle ground on which the opposites can be united. If, for instance, we conceive the opposition to be sensuality versus spirituality, then the mediatory content born out of the unconscious provides a welcome means of expression for the spiritual thesis, because of its rich spiritual associations, and also for the sensual antithesis, because of its sensuous imagery. The ego, however, torn between thesis and antithesis, finds in the middle ground its own counterpart, its sole and unique means of expression, and it eagerly seizes on this in order to be delivered from its division.["Definitions," CW 6, par. 825.]

    The transcendent function is essentially an aspect of the self-regulation of the psyche. It typically manifests symbolically and is experienced as a new attitude toward oneself and life.

    If the mediatory product remains intact, it forms the raw material for a process not of dissolution but of construction, in which thesis and antithesis both play their part. In this way it becomes a new content that governs the whole attitude, putting an end to the division and forcing the energy of the opposites into a common channel. The standstill is overcome and life can flow on with renewed power towards new goals.[Ibid., par. 827.]
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  4. #4
    Senior Member chris1207's Avatar
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    @ INTP: Wow, they really need an ENFJ proof-reader to make their concepts more understandable. Holy convoluted abstract vocabulary, Batman!
    "... you think deeply about stuff [that] nobody cares about and hardly anybody can understand you." ~ Peguy talking about Ni users. So true.

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    Senior Member chris1207's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    Aux isnt authorative, but more of guiding dom.
    Tert isnt about seeking for relief, needing relief or giving relief on everything you feel amxious about, but giving relief(or answer/new helpful perspective) on problems with inferior and giving some control over inferior.

    Also aux is more conscious than tert, you have more control over it, but it can also misbehave unless you have learned how to use it(which usually happens in late teens/early adulthood, but can happen earlier or later, depending on the person and situations).



    This tension between opposites is basically conflict between dom and inferior. Ego tries to reject what opposes it and dom is more in ego, so it tries to reject what inferior tells you and repress it in the unconscious. But when the message from inferior is strong enough, ego is unable to keep inferior instincts completely out of consciousness, so it leaks out to consciousness and causes problems.

    This is what the tert works as when resolving the conflict between dom and inferior(but this happens with other conflicts between ego and shadow when resolving them):
    Done reading your quotes. Do you really read that kind of nonsense? It's full of dumb Te visual logic words (constellation, transcendent, thesis, antithesis, mediatory (is that even an effing word?).)

    Te is for standardization of logic not for depth. Te is stupid compared to deep Ti. Try finding an author that uses Ti to form conceptual distinctions.

    ChrisC99: "So my question is, what would be the best way to still distinguish the two?" (distinguish logically = Ti)

    Here's how: Make an argument that is succinct. If they ask you questions that are intending to help enhance their understanding of what you said then they have Ti, if they bitch at you and demand that you substantiate your ideas with some authority, they have Te. People with Fi have a tendency to highly value privacy, people with Fe tend to focus on the social impact of their actions.
    Last edited by chris1207; 12-03-2011 at 02:36 PM.
    "... you think deeply about stuff [that] nobody cares about and hardly anybody can understand you." ~ Peguy talking about Ni users. So true.

  6. #6
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris1207 View Post
    Done reading your quotes. Do you really read that kind of nonsense? It's full of dumb Te visual logic words (constellation, transcendent, thesis, antithesis, mediatory (is that even an effing word?).)

    Te is for standardization of logic not for depth. Te is stupid compared to deep Ti. Try finding an author that uses Ti to form conceptual distinctions.

    ChrisC99: "So my question is, what would be the best way to still distinguish the two?" (distinguish logically = Ti)

    Here's how: Make an argument that is succinct. If they ask you questions that are intending to help enhance their understanding of what you said then they have Ti, if they bitch at you and demand that you substantiate your ideas with some authority, they have Te. People with Fi have a tendency to highly value privacy, people with Fe tend to focus on the social impact of their actions.
    ^^^^^^^
    This has got to be one of the most annoyingly biased posts I have ever read on this forum. Let me paraphrase you: Te is dumb. Te is stupid. Ti is enhancing and understanding whereas Te bitches and demands.

    Wow! You really think Te sucks and Ti is awesome... which is completely ridiculous. Neither function is superior to the other. They each have different strengths and different weaknesses.

    Let me use my auxiliary Fi by gently but firmly suggesting that you, @chris1207, need to step back and objectively evaluate your own bias against Te.

    ------------
    As for the original post, it's not necessarily easy to differentiate auxiliary and tertiary functions. Let me think about this for a bit and get back to you.

    ENFP with kick*ss Te | 7w8 so | ♀

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