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  1. #21
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    about a lot of thing yes i am open and very changeable...but when it comes to basic humanity and how others ought to be treated...no...i feel very clear and unchangeable there.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  2. #22
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    about a lot of thing yes i am open and very changeable...but when it comes to basic humanity and how others ought to be treated...no...i feel very clear and unchangeable there.
    OK, that makes sense.

    But see, how often are you banging heads with someone over those things? You're hardly someone where the first thought that came to my mind was how black and white you were on issues.

  3. #23
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    just read this and thought i'd share...probably more flowery than you care to read...and i'm not religious myself...but...neither is the guy who wrote it.
    http://www.danoah.com/2011/11/im-chr...youre-gay.html

    i personally think it can feel very black and white to the person with the conviction. i try to be humble enough to realize people come to their own conclusions based on their own very personal life experiences. it's important i think to allow others the freedom to form their own thoughts and not judge or look down upon them when they differ from your own...but...if you try to debate me on say...the death penalty i'd likely come off very black and white about it because to me it is...killing someone is murder...and one doesn't make the other right....so...i feel very black and white about it but i get that others with other life experiences have come to their own conclusions...and i can respect that...but don't debate me on it.
    I relate to this 100%.

    (And that article was wonderful. )
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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    want to ask me something? go for it!

  4. #24
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    i'm not very often...but i do take issue with people being shitty to others and will say so but otherwise yeah...i'm pretty go with the flow and like to look at things from all sides and like to take in all the information and judge things purely based on individual circumstances.

    i think thats probably all it is...when people see a fi user being all black and white about something you likely struck a nerve...or stepped on one of their core values.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  5. #25
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    when people see a fi user being all black and white about something you likely struck a nerve...or stepped on one of their core values.
    Exactly.

    And they didn't their get way that one time, and then make a big issue about it. Waaah. :P

  6. #26
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    hahaha!
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  7. #27
    Glycerine
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    Strong convictions come off black and white...and I have seen that tendency with Fi users, especially INFPs. Saying that, it's common among people in general.

    Me: I'm agnostic.
    Person 2: That's a weak stance. You should either be religious or atheist because you will have some conviction in what you believe in.

  8. #28
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    That's just weird though.

    EPs and IPs are often open and perceiving types. Fi or not. External variables matter even more than otherwise.
    But they matter because of Pe, not Ji in itself.
    You lose.

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  9. #29
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eckhart View Post
    I as an INFP cannot relate to that whole stuff at all. I think I am more able to differentiate about positions between black and white than most people I know. For some people, when someone else has done something evil, they cannot view that person anymore rationally, everything they ever did is totally evil and just trying to seperate individual traits or deeds of these people makes you look already crazy to them (you can see that often in politics for example). I don't have such issues. I can see that a person has done something wrong, but that doesn't mean that everything else this person did or is doing is now to be discarded as well.

    And in general, I can very well understand that other people see things differently than me. Generally I follow a live and let live approach. Of course, if a person has important views which are totally different from mine, we might maybe not become best friends, but I don't force things on other people or attack them or so. Usually it is me who sees himself confronted though by other types of people who try to force things on me, and that can annoy me.
    I relate to this. I don't relate to the OP and I've yet to hear from people IRL that I come off that way.

    I think people pin BS on xxFPs because they don't understand the function and they project their own shadow attitudes onto a thinking that is largely foreign to them.

    Also consider: if an ExFP is displaying such an attitude, then why assume it stems from Fi? To have contradicting views & to openly express views on touchy matters seems waaaaaay more Pe or Pi to me than Fi, which tends to only be expressed enough to indicate there has been a violation & forms values using lines of reasoning. Not all personal beliefs are Fi valuations; Fi is just a process of thinking that some prefer when valuating. Any type can have personal beliefs that are not formed using Fi thinking. P-doms can form views based on impressions without having evaluated it via a rational argument. It can appear as an "it is what it is" attitude because they "see" it so clearly. This will look like a "value" in layman's terms, but it's not a valuation in a technical sense. IMO, it's harder to reason with such people than with a J-dom, because they prefer whole impressions over lines of reasoning (ie. why Ni-dom have a rep for being stubborn). I've seen this waaaay more with P-dom: "This is true because I see it that way & it's obvious!". They offer no argument for their view...

    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I don't see how it Fi sticks it head out enough to even notice it that often.

    I think INFPs are kind of global in their outlook.. they see many sides. I think they might even project sensitivities on to people when it isn't there (which would be going beyond simply understanding, I guess). It's only on the convictions that they deemed important when the whole black n white thing comes out. Things that they feel are violations on that very global scale, where they see it violates not only them, but something on a general humane level, as they see it. It's hardly petty individualism.
    Agreed, but I still don't even think it's "black & white" when it comes out. It's contextual and nuanced, which is hardly black & white, but rather containing many details & shades of meaning (and if those were to change, so would the stance).

    One way I can see an IFP coming off "black & white" is if they feel the other person is attacking them & they've SHUT DOWN in response. It's not that their argument or thinking is black & white, but that they don't feel the other person is even listening to them or giving them a fair chance, so they stop explaining it. They let the person think what they want, as they've already jumped to a conclusion anyway. I've seen other IFPs do this, but to interpret it as a whole "black & white" mindset seems, well, black & white! The context would show why such a person is putting a wall up, unless you're completely dense & prefer jumping to conclusions over actually understanding someone.

    People seem to forget that xxFPs are generally described as diplomatic, and that we're also pegged as easy-going & accommodating. It's funny how in one breath a person says xxFPs are stubborn & black & white, and in the next, they'll say we can't make a decision & are too nice in a weak way; it's whatever suits their argument of the moment, I suppose....

    It reminds me of what Lenore Thompson said about Fi; basically, so many people use it in an inferior form that they invalidate it as sentimental, emotional, weak, simplistic, etc. This is because they experience it that way in their own mind, not because that's how it works when it's a dominant mindset. If I were to paint other functions based on how I experience them, then they'd look silly & childish also.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  10. #30
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    But they matter because of Pe, not Ji in itself.
    Fair enough.. but wouldn't you agree that they work in tandem.. or are informed from the other?

    I don't even want to ask that, because I know you would.

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