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Thread: Changing type?

  1. #31
    Senior Member laughingebony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Llewellyn View Post
    I don't agree. Your function order typically leaves room open for multiple types.
    There is no room for disagreement. By its very definition, "type" is determined by function order. If you are referring to a classification system in which the classifications are not based on function order, you are not talking about "type," at least not in the Jung/Myers/Briggs sense. Given that:

    1. On this forum, when people talk about "type," they are usually referring to "type" in the Jung/Myers/Briggs sense.
    2. The OP did not specify otherwise.

    It is reasonable to assume that the OP was referring to "type" in the Jung/Myers/Briggs sense, unless (s)he hereafter specifies otherwise.

  2. #32
    Senior Member NewEra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Llewellyn View Post
    This calls for an analysis. My first reaction: I don't believe this. Then so what happened is that under stress a.o. you developed dominant Se, secondary Ti, where you first had dominant Si and secondary Te. Superficially, it looks like you changed orientation of your dominant S and secondary T. I suppose this could well be possible, since an SiTe will typically have fairly well developed SeTi. Another association: you might've temporarily shifted to an ISTJ's right brain double agents (see here).
    Now, I guess it is possible that under stress a left brainer can shift to his right brain.
    Since you say you were an ESP child, it could also be the other way around, that you shifted to an ESTP's left brain double agents (being SiTe).
    But you consider yourself an ISTj now. I'm wondering if you're an ISTJ who used to be more 'social' (i mean, whatever that is) when you were young? It's hard to say, this is my take for now.
    That's interesting, thanks for the analysis and link, although it's slightly confusing (with the left-brained ESTP and a right-brained ISTJ).

  3. #33
    Senior Member NewEra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StephMC939 View Post
    But completely altering your function order? Now your four primary functions develop throughout life. Keep in mind that as a child, your primary function is really the only one that's developing. So TheChosenOne, for example was primarily an Si child. I can imagine an Si child looking like an ESP, simply because they're craving data all the time. Especially when you're still developing preferences at this time... He was developing both Si and Se, but Si took role of his primary function, and Se as a shadow function to his Si. Next, in your teens, you develop your second function. Your third comes in roughly around your 20s, and your fourth comes in around 30ish or so.

    So as a child, it could be possible to switch to another function preference. After all, your primary function is still developing. In your teens, it's a little less likely. 20 and beyond, I think the only way that could happen is if the individual was EXTREMELY undeveloped, underwent extreme stress, or was in some bizarre accident. And your preference for your dominant two functions would either have to decrease (Very unlikely, as it took your entire life to develop them), or they would stay the same, and relatively weak functions shot up in strength (And be used more positively than negatively). If that were to happen, that would be one badass individual. They'd be more balanced than most, which sounds questionable if the person went through a stressful incident or accident.

    Now here's what might appear like a personality change: Your shadow functions coming out. These are functions 5-8. Unlike primary functions, they usually only show up in negative circumstances (or over a significant period of time as an individual balances out). Under extreme stress, you may live almost entirely in your shadow functions, primarily your more developed 5-6 functions. But they would very rarely be used in a healthy manner. Now for TheChosenOne, his fifth and sixth functions are Se and Ti, respectively. So under this period of stress, he looked nearly identical to an ESTP in his late teens. So yeah, of course he would test as an ESTP. Before this stress, he really only depended on his Si + Te. His relief function, or his 3rd function, was barely, if at all, developed. Therefore, once his first two functions were exhausted, he couldn't tap into that 3rd function like an ISTJ in his 30s or 40s could. Instead, he relied on his Opposing function and Critical Parent function (5 and 6... see link above :P).

    Okay, anyways, in a way, it looked like a personality switch. So I guess if you really wanted to, you could say that he switched personalities for a year. But the fact that he appeared ISTJ again once his stress went away (or once he was able to energize his first two functions again), says that he was doing what any teen would do under extreme stress: Adapt.
    That's very informative and enlightening, thank you. It would make sense that as a child, I didn't have my type fully ingrained or intact.

    Also, you mention that the 3rd function is the relief function, the one you go to when the first two functions are spent. In most of the tests I've taken, I've had Si as almost always dominant, but the three after them are up for grabs. Usually I have Ti as my 2nd leading function, and either Te or Se as 3rd (the other is 4th). I have Fi as 5th too. So do you think that because I generally have Se as my 3rd or 4th function, that I tapped into this auxiliary or inferior function under stress (when my first two functions are not dependable) ?? Thanks.

  4. #34
    Controlled Mischief StephMC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheChosenOne View Post
    That's interesting, thanks for the analysis and link, although it's slightly confusing (with the left-brained ESTP and a right-brained ISTJ).
    Yeah, I haven't read too much about how MBTI relates to left brain or right brain... that's my next project. As for now, I really only know about how function order works

  5. #35
    Controlled Mischief StephMC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheChosenOne View Post
    That's very informative and enlightening, thank you. It would make sense that as a child, I didn't have my type fully ingrained or intact.

    Also, you mention that the 3rd function is the relief function, the one you go to when the first two functions are spent. In most of the tests I've taken, I've had Si as almost always dominant, but the three after them are up for grabs. Usually I have Ti as my 2nd leading function, and either Te or Se as 3rd (the other is 4th). I have Fi as 5th too. So do you think that because I generally have Se as my 3rd or 4th function, that I tapped into this auxiliary or inferior function under stress (when my first two functions are not dependable) ?? Thanks.
    That can depend on a lot. A) Your age. B) How much stress you are under on a regular basis (and how well you deal with it). C) The people around... the list goes on. I would try taking a few different tests when you are in a very relaxed state, and haven't had much stress for a while. The typical ISTJ function order goes: Si Te Fi Ne | Se Ti Fe Ni.

    Okay, so here goes my best stab at what I think is going on. If Si I is very dominant, and you are young (early 20s), typically Se is going to be its shadow function. If you have stress on a regular basis, Se is going to come out a lot, even if your dominant function isn't exhausted. But here's the thing, it usually comes out in more negative ways then positive. Here's a question, can you relate to this?: "They can become stubborn about going with the flow of a single impulse and insist they have an accurate read on a current situation. Yet the can be quite adept at seeing what is really there for what it is." This is what Se looks like as a fifth function. Ti as a 6th function appears as so: "They usually prefer not articulating operating principles and, when stressed, can become stuck in models and frameworks they have learned or adopted. Yet at times they can magically see how their models fit situations and problems they are dealing with."

    Here's the thing, if you're in your early 20s, most likely you only have your 1st (Si) and 2nd (Te) functions developed, followed by your 5th (Se) and 6th (Ti) as shadow functions. However, your 3rd function peaks out occasionally. So if you've had a lot of stress in the recent years, or have been exposed to specific situations a lot, you will score high on Se and Ti. I think while you still depend primarily on Si, you're constantly exposed to things that bring out your 5th and 6th, primarily your Ti. Read the role of the Critical Parent again (6th function), from my link...
    The critical parent role is how we find weak spots and can immobilize and demoralize others. We can also feel this way when others use the process that plays this role. It is often used sporadically and emerges more often under stressful conditions when something important is at risk. When we engage it, we can go on and on.
    Are you put in situations like that often? And your Fi might be coming out as 5th because, well, you're developing that on the side and constantly engaging in you primary and shadow functions. Under stress, it's a struggle to juggle all of these, especially and crucial development ages. It's going to be confusing, and all over the place.

    Now I said earlier that your function order isn't going to be -exactly- like your type. But in your "healthiest" state, and with minimal stress, it's going to be damn close, give or take a spot or two. But even then, if more than 1 or 2 functions switch a spot up or down, you could completely flop into an ESTJ . Again, if you've been testing under stress, Shadow Functions will pop up. Look closely at your Se and Ti... do you feel like you use them in a healthy manner? On that website, it gives pretty decent descriptions of those 8 cognitive processes. Do you use it the way they describe? Or do you use it when you're feeling oppositional or critical? Do you use it naturally on easy-going days? Does it strain you to use them? Do they fit up to the way function order describes (i.e. Ready "The Support Role"... Do you use your Ti in that manner?)? When you're -acting- into the world, what do you look like? More organized or more spontaneous? If your first function is Si, you need an extroverted second function to survive in the world. In this case, it's either Te or Se (but if you're an ISTJ, it's most likely Te).

    I've rambled again. So to answer as simply as possible, if you're in your 20s, you're probably not going to depend on your 3rd or 4th function. It's still developing. If Se comes out at all, it probably is in the form of a shadow function.

  6. #36
    Senior Member laughingebony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StephMC939 View Post
    So as a child, it could be possible to switch to another function preference. After all, your primary function is still developing. In your teens, it's a little less likely. 20 and beyond, I think the only way that could happen is if the individual was EXTREMELY undeveloped, underwent extreme stress, or was in some bizarre accident. And your preference for your dominant two functions would either have to decrease (Very unlikely, as it took your entire life to develop them), or they would stay the same, and relatively weak functions shot up in strength (And be used more positively than negatively). If that were to happen, that would be one badass individual. They'd be more balanced than most, which sounds questionable if the person went through a stressful incident or accident.

    Okay, I'll buy that. What you have established, though, is not that it is impossible, just that it is very unlikely and, in addition, have brought my disproof into question. I am trying to understand why other posters are saying that it can't happen, as though it is absolute, and without any plausible explanation. I'm a big fan of using qualifiers. (Is that characteristic of any function, in particular?)

    Quote Originally Posted by StephMC939
    Long post in response to TheChosenOne
    TheChosenOne: Perhaps if you determine your function order based on what role each function plays, rather than on its raw strength, what StephMC939 said will become a bit clearer. My own type became much clearer when I reordered my functions as such.

  7. #37
    Controlled Mischief StephMC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by laughingebony View Post
    Okay, I'll buy that. What you have established, though, is not that it is impossible, just that it is very unlikely and, in addition, have brought my disproof into question. I am trying to understand why other posters are saying that it can't happen, as though it is absolute, and without any plausible explanation. I'm a big fan of using qualifiers. (Is that characteristic of any function, in particular?)
    Yeah, it's not impossible. After majoring in statistics, I kinda deleted the word "impossible" from my vocabulary... But it is highly unlikely. And there would have to be some prettyyyyy unusual circumstances at a relatively young age. Very doubtful 30 and beyond.


    Quote Originally Posted by laughingebony View Post
    TheChosenOne: Perhaps if you determine your function order based on what role each function plays, rather than on its raw strength, what StephMC939 said will become a bit clearer. My own type became much clearer when I reordered my functions as such.
    Hahah... sorry about that. I have a tendency to ramble about topics I'm really interested in (My Ti lets loose). Very well said, btw. For example, read the description of Ti on this site. Then read the function order again... does Ti look like a Supporting role? If not, which role -does- it look like?

  8. #38
    Senior Member NewEra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StephMC939 View Post
    That can depend on a lot. A) Your age. B) How much stress you are under on a regular basis (and how well you deal with it). C) The people around... the list goes on. I would try taking a few different tests when you are in a very relaxed state, and haven't had much stress for a while. The typical ISTJ function order goes: Si Te Fi Ne | Se Ti Fe Ni.

    Okay, so here goes my best stab at what I think is going on. If Si I is very dominant, and you are young (early 20s), typically Se is going to be its shadow function. If you have stress on a regular basis, Se is going to come out a lot, even if your dominant function isn't exhausted. But here's the thing, it usually comes out in more negative ways then positive. Here's a question, can you relate to this?: "They can become stubborn about going with the flow of a single impulse and insist they have an accurate read on a current situation. Yet the can be quite adept at seeing what is really there for what it is." This is what Se looks like as a fifth function. Ti as a 6th function appears as so: "They usually prefer not articulating operating principles and, when stressed, can become stuck in models and frameworks they have learned or adopted. Yet at times they can magically see how their models fit situations and problems they are dealing with."
    I can relate to the Se statement more, not as much with the Ti one.

    Quote Originally Posted by StephMC939 View Post
    Here's the thing, if you're in your early 20s, most likely you only have your 1st (Si) and 2nd (Te) functions developed, followed by your 5th (Se) and 6th (Ti) as shadow functions. However, your 3rd function peaks out occasionally. So if you've had a lot of stress in the recent years, or have been exposed to specific situations a lot, you will score high on Se and Ti. I think while you still depend primarily on Si, you're constantly exposed to things that bring out your 5th and 6th, primarily your Ti. Read the role of the Critical Parent again (6th function), from my link...

    Are you put in situations like that often? And your Fi might be coming out as 5th because, well, you're developing that on the side and constantly engaging in you primary and shadow functions. Under stress, it's a struggle to juggle all of these, especially and crucial development ages. It's going to be confusing, and all over the place.

    Now I said earlier that your function order isn't going to be -exactly- like your type. But in your "healthiest" state, and with minimal stress, it's going to be damn close, give or take a spot or two. But even then, if more than 1 or 2 functions switch a spot up or down, you could completely flop into an ESTJ . Again, if you've been testing under stress, Shadow Functions will pop up. Look closely at your Se and Ti... do you feel like you use them in a healthy manner? On that website, it gives pretty decent descriptions of those 8 cognitive processes. Do you use it the way they describe? Or do you use it when you're feeling oppositional or critical? Do you use it naturally on easy-going days? Does it strain you to use them? Do they fit up to the way function order describes (i.e. Ready "The Support Role"... Do you use your Ti in that manner?)? When you're -acting- into the world, what do you look like? More organized or more spontaneous? If your first function is Si, you need an extroverted second function to survive in the world. In this case, it's either Te or Se (but if you're an ISTJ, it's most likely Te).
    Hmm... from your link I would say that I relate to Te the most in a healthy way, but also to Si and Se a little. Not really Ti. However, the use of all functions except Si and Te are straining.

    Thanks again.

    Quote Originally Posted by laughingebony View Post
    TheChosenOne: Perhaps if you determine your function order based on what role each function plays, rather than on its raw strength, what StephMC939 said will become a bit clearer. My own type became much clearer when I reordered my functions as such.
    Yeah, I'll take a look at this, thanks.

  9. #39
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by laughingebony View Post
    There is no room for disagreement. By its very definition, "type" is determined by function order.
    Does the MBTI ask function questions?
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  10. #40
    Senior Member Max's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by epp View Post
    As much as I understand, the type shows what people actually PREFER to use and I'm pretty sure this won't change (unless perhaps one already is borderline-something anyway). But it is possible to learn to handle the opposite functions and get quite comfortable at them. For example, I am extremely N, but I actually pay special attention to experience and grow S. So I could 'switch it on' when needed... But never mind how good I might get at S, I'm sure I'll always PREFER to use N by default. Something like that.
    Actually, I would prefer to be extroverted, but am still introverted nonetheless because there is nothing I can do about it. I don't much enjoy being alone, and I am happier when I have friends with me, but I don't get that opportunity very often and when I do, I'm not very experienced at it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Llewellyn View Post
    Your type is often also visible in your basic appearance, and I don't guess that changes too much.
    Interesting, because according to this test, I have the face of an ENFJ... which is not quite my type, haha... Not sure how accurate or professional that test really is, though.

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