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Ni, Ne, and Creativity

King sns

New member
Joined
Nov 4, 2008
Messages
6,714
MBTI Type
enfp
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I'm not really sure... Sometimes they are not really fully formed ideas, my thoughts are just a big mush of one thing after the other so it's hard to know how things started. They all just start dumping in all of a sudden. One second it is something about bills and the next second it is wondering what happens if you turn an entire room into magnets and cover yourself with magnets and make the floor with less forceful magnets to account for the force of gravity. Next second I'm wondering what kinds of things that may do to your cells or if you could rearrange cells in your body using magnets and somehow fix things or make some strange mutations that way. Next second I'm remembering some weird movie I watched about germs, wondering how funny it would be if they made a Pixar movie about a germs life, etc. etc, and then all of a sudden I'm thinking it would be funny if meth dealers capitalized on giving dental care, some kind of a 2 for one deal the first time, etc.. (Then mind goes blank and I go back to doing whatever boring thing I was doing.)
 

Trunks

I'm not Trunks
Joined
Feb 1, 2012
Messages
333
I don't learn much about the cognitive function, anyway I'll give short answer:

Ne = Finding and interpret hidden meaning very quick.
Ni = Observation and perceiving random patterns - Takes time (The Te helps to discard unimportant patterns)

Ni dom can understand other Ni dom languages very fast I think, at least for me. Sometimes, I use more Ne via online, thus makes me think I'm not an INTJ, in reality I'm totally Ni dom. Although my cognitive function test is more to LII.
Observation is the key.
 
G

garbage

Guest
Broadly scope out alternatives*. Pick the one with the most promise and develop, in my head or on paper, a decently comprehensive plan using it. Place a toe in the waters of that plan, testing it against the real world (feedback from the real world is important!). Course-correct if needed. Rinse and repeat.

Man, that makes me sound really boring.

* Here's the brainstorming bit. Really, it's a matter of seeing what ideas may be out there that we can turn completely upside down for our own purposes. If I brainstorm with other people, I'm the one who controls the whiteboard and makes connections throughout the things that we've discussed. I think from the end and the beginning simultaneously, and I constantly strive to tie the two together.

I dunno. Different problems lend themselves to different modes of thinking. Sometimes, there's no need to brainstorm--or, at least, to include or harp incessantly on alternatives that just will not work.
 

spiderfrommars

New member
Joined
Jan 28, 2012
Messages
36
MBTI Type
xNTP
Enneagram
8w7
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
I'm a Ni-user. My process generally comes down to defining and re-defining the question. This eventually…I guess, erodes it, to the point where it doesn't even exist, as it has been solved. (On the other hand, when my ESFJ friend and I were working on the D&D alignment system (which he both likes and applies to the real world) and I kept asking, "Okay, but what is 'evil' defined by? Is it [x], [y], [elbow]?", it didn't end very well, and no solving occurred.)

Interestingly, my process often involves other people. If I feel stuck (since I have more of an ability to ask "What am I looking for?" than to suggest a solution), I love to bounce ideas off other people. I enjoy working with a Ne-user, who can give me fresh (…random…) ideas, and/or a Si-user, who can remind me of the last way I solved that or a similar problem.

The other important step to my creative process is…ignoring the problem. As an example, when I receive an essay prompt, I plan what I want to write that day, and then forget about it until the night before it's due. During that time, Ni has unconsciously planned how to argue the thesis I decided on that first day, so I write very quickly and easily. I do a similar thing with writing stories, planning, taking a break, and then writing them in a quick, frenzied fashion.

My ENFP roommate, however, tells me she can't plan essays at all or the writing will bore her. And for both essays and stories, she tends to write very slowly, planning every word. It seems that this is the effect of Ne– seeing hundreds of possibilities and needing to pick the right/good (right if Ti, good if Fi) one.

As a result of my process, I often feel like I don't understand things at all, and then I'll turn around and give an eloquent explanation of the whole thing.
 

Lady_X

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
18,235
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
784
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
^^ that's awesome...totally wish i could do that. it takes me forever to write...not forum posts at all haha but something as silly as writing on a card...choosing a card to begin with can take so long i often just give up...who cares about cards anyway...
 

spiderfrommars

New member
Joined
Jan 28, 2012
Messages
36
MBTI Type
xNTP
Enneagram
8w7
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
What do you mean by right and good?

I mean, that Ne sees many possibilities, and is trying to choose the optimal one. Right/good was just my division of the language generally used to denote the difference between T/F. So by "right", I meant the possibility that Ti would consider optimal (most logical?) and by "good" I meant the possibility that Fi would consider optimal (feels best). It was sort of a clumsy way of putting it.
 

The Outsider

New member
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
2,418
MBTI Type
intp
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx
I mean, that Ne sees many possibilities, and is trying to choose the optimal one. Right/good was just my division of the language generally used to denote the difference between T/F. So by "right", I meant the possibility that Ti would consider optimal (most logical?) and by "good" I meant the possibility that Fi would consider optimal (feels best). It was sort of a clumsy way of putting it.

I see, that makes sense.
 
G

garbage

Guest
My process generally comes down to defining and re-defining the question. This eventually…I guess, erodes it, to the point where it doesn't even exist, as it has been solved. (On the other hand, when my ESFJ friend and I were working on the D&D alignment system (which he both likes and applies to the real world) and I kept asking, "Okay, but what is 'evil' defined by? Is it [x], [y], [elbow]?", it didn't end very well, and no solving occurred.)

I do this sometimes as well. For me, if I chip away at something from many different angles (asking probing questions with different assumptions, etc.) the picture paints itself with what often seems to be actual minimal effort.

Coincidentally, I've had to try to crisply define 'evil' as well--it's actually very difficult to do. This then leads to questions such as why it's important to define in the first place, what exactly is it that we're trying to measure, is the thing we're defining actually evil, what are the consequences (if any) if our definition doesn't adequately capture 'evil,' etc. The holistic picture painted by these questions winds up being somewhat difficult to put into words, but it feels like merely posing these questions provides their answers. Or something.

The other important step to my creative process is…ignoring the problem. As an example, when I receive an essay prompt, I plan what I want to write that day, and then forget about it until the night before it's due. During that time, Ni has unconsciously planned how to argue the thesis I decided on that first day, so I write very quickly and easily. I do a similar thing with writing stories, planning, taking a break, and then writing them in a quick, frenzied fashion.

And this is a process that I need to practice (or learn to trust), because it sounds awesome as hell.

--

Another thought: I don't prefer to concentrate solely on the task at hand. If I'm reading an article to gain insight for one project, for example, my mind cannot help but to constantly jump to applications to other projects. So, I channel this by, for example, marking that article up with few different colors of highlighter, each corresponding to a project. In the end, I've done what I've needed to do--read the article and applied it to the project--but I've also tackled a few other things on the side. What can I say? Jumping from context to context is just something that happens.

Ah, P :coffee:
 

spiderfrommars

New member
Joined
Jan 28, 2012
Messages
36
MBTI Type
xNTP
Enneagram
8w7
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Another thought: I don't prefer to concentrate solely on the task at hand. If I'm reading an article to gain insight for one project, for example, my mind cannot help but to constantly jump to applications to other projects. So, I channel this by, for example, marking that article up with few different colors of highlighter, each corresponding to a project. In the end, I've done what I've needed to do--read the article and applied it to the project--but I've also tackled a few other things on the side. What can I say? Jumping from context to context is just something that happens.

Ah, P :coffee:

That's a process I want to learn, because it also sounds awesome as hell!

Yeah, I've found evil is almost impossible to define. I've had an easier time with "good" but "neutral" and "evil" are remarkably hard to tell apart if evil isn't identified as sadism. This is all in a D&D context, obviously, and with the assumption that humans are even capable of comprehending objective morality. Interestingly, the one time I tried to play an evil character, I failed.
 

527468

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Joined
Oct 22, 2008
Messages
1,945
I use Ni. I tend to come up with ideas with a burst of inspiration, or a sudden realization of how things fit together. Once I have an idea of how a system operates, then I can use it to create whatever my vision is. The inspiration comes from just about any source, philosophical ideas, music, scientific discovery, you name it. I'm not a natural brainstormer per se, I tend to struggle to put down a flurry of ideas on paper, I'd rather think things over and just flow with my train of thought. I like thinking up of ideas in the brainstorming process, but often times it appears more like a netted mess that I have to detangle in order to make sense of it all. Usually my most creative work comes out of having a specific inner vision in mind and to use the resources I have in front of me to turn my vision to reality.

I tend to mull over my ideas over an extended period of time until I come out with something cohesive, and outline my plans to execute my goals.

This.


Also this.
 

527468

deleted
Joined
Oct 22, 2008
Messages
1,945
I change the terms to fit the idea, not the idea to fit the terms. Meaning the idea isn't objective, therefore it can't be picked from a sea of options. It's an internal guideline, pulse or string of inspiration.
 

deathwarmedup

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Dec 6, 2012
Messages
416
MBTI Type
IXTJ
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6w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I posted this in another thread already, but it just seemed to be really relevant:

I would venture that a lot of Ni people don't feel particularly "creative" in the modern day way as much as we are "novel". Creativity today seems to invoke the idea of being able to spawn 5 new ideas from every one, constant tinkering and recombination. Ni is more about a singular shift in perspective; a novel way of perceiving a data set by turning it on it's head. I'd compare it to taking a piece of paper with a design on it: you can extrapolate the design and make it more creative or you can see that the original design is actually a picture of bil murry

I fully agree.
 

dobages

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Jul 14, 2012
Messages
19
MBTI Type
----
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Still not too sure about my type. I constantly have some ideas floating through my head whether ridiculous or realistic. Sometimes i spew every one out and get mixed reactions, which is kind of entertaining for me, but other times i filter them. When others seem to see a problem i directly look for the solution often saying the problem is solvable even though i don't have the idea completely defined. From the one problem i instantly see multiple possibilities of solution and verbalize the one that's most apropriate after filtering the ideas,the time depending on problem difficulty.
 
I

Infinite Bubble

Guest
Usually what happens with me is one single idea will come up, and I'll become attached to this idea. I do not start a project until I have the idea in advance, rather than creating on the spot.The general outline will already be complete; only a few details need to be filled in over time when I actually get to work on it. There's no need to brainstorm because I already know what I want to do, and it bores me most of the time. I dislike doing mind maps and spider-diagrams. One other thing I should add is I don't tell many people my ideas (until I show them the finished product), or enjoy bouncing ideas around, as creativity is a very personal process for me. Quite sure I have Ni, although I do know of times I'm using Ne to generate several ideas quickly.
 

Folderol

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Joined
May 16, 2008
Messages
83
MBTI Type
INTP
Ne auxillary I think (from descriptions and what I know about myself).

How do I come up with ideas... hmm. I think I have internalized ideas or catalogues of how things have worked in the past or the general "method" they work by and then try to apply that same idea to other areas. Look for similarities. Also, asking questions. The best way to learn is through lots of questions? How does it? Why? Does it do _______? Every time you learn something, you know more and then can do something with that or look for patterns.

I'm surprised so many here don't like brainstorming. Are we talking about some forced, academic version of it or just in our own heads, with the thought "generate possible leads"? I'm thinking the latter and actually love brainstorming that way. It prompts solution and an abundance of ideas means a higher chance of solving something. I will say that brainstorming doesn't come without effort. I need to sit down and consciously focus on generating new ideas if I am to be serious about it. It can take a long time if I am unsure of where to actually start. Even though one can think of Ne as "out of nowhere", I think one usually needs a bit of framework for it to be successful and timely. Usually it is very slow at first too then it's like tons of stuff at once. Or I get one idea, and that idea leads to another idea, and that to another, like they are all connected but variations of each other enough to be considered something new. If I am serious about it, then I need to list down every single possibility, regardless if it is realistic or not. It's not that I will write down things like "What if the universe splits in 2 and my evil twin interferes?", but more like "If this is even a hair possible or has a chance of working, then it is useful... we can sort these things later."

For problems of the highest importance, having limited options is the worst case scenario IMO. It's like "where do I go now? There are literally NO options left!" Also, for problems that I cannot come up with a perfect solution, I take in all of my options again and start filtering them down as much as I can. I then let the remaining pieces sit in my mind like marinate/process. It's like the spinning circle in Windows,"working/processing/please wait for a result". I will try not to focus on it too much but hope something just randomly comes to me out of the blue (all of a sudden something will appear in my mind as an option I never thought of).
 

The Cat

Just a Cat who hangs out at the Crossroads
Staff member
Joined
Oct 15, 2016
Messages
23,553
Either Ne, Se, Fe, or Fi depending on who you want to believe. My ideas come from an internal response to external inspiration. Or Im just mad. :shrug: A part of me swims in the river, but in truth I'm standing on the shore, the current never carries me down stream...
 

Froody Blue Gem

Necromancing Scapelamb
Joined
Dec 19, 2018
Messages
1,141
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
954
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
I utilize ne, and usually ideas come to me when I'm least expecting them to. It's a combination of ne as well as ti. The ti picks things apart, while my ne is very opened and can be quite wild, if something doesn't quite fit in, I try to figure out another angle, and ways that I might be wrong. Or I think about how certain things don't work and arguments why something does not fit. There's a semi-control aspect, but there is not guarantee a good idea will come unless you give it time.

If I try to force an idea to come, it is a stubborn matter but a ton of ideas will flood in when I don't force them. External things, things people say, concepts I read about in books, things I see on TV, may remind me of another thing then it sparks another idea or multiple other ideas. Going for walks and being out in nature, my mind goes wild. Listening to music as well as caffeine intake also spark ideas and are grounds for them to sprout. Once I get an idea, I focus on it and don't quite want to let it go, and like to explore many different aspects of it.
 
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