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  1. #61
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    I'm not really sure... Sometimes they are not really fully formed ideas, my thoughts are just a big mush of one thing after the other so it's hard to know how things started. They all just start dumping in all of a sudden. One second it is something about bills and the next second it is wondering what happens if you turn an entire room into magnets and cover yourself with magnets and make the floor with less forceful magnets to account for the force of gravity. Next second I'm wondering what kinds of things that may do to your cells or if you could rearrange cells in your body using magnets and somehow fix things or make some strange mutations that way. Next second I'm remembering some weird movie I watched about germs, wondering how funny it would be if they made a Pixar movie about a germs life, etc. etc, and then all of a sudden I'm thinking it would be funny if meth dealers capitalized on giving dental care, some kind of a 2 for one deal the first time, etc.. (Then mind goes blank and I go back to doing whatever boring thing I was doing.)
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
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  2. #62
    I'm not Trunks
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    I don't learn much about the cognitive function, anyway I'll give short answer:

    Ne = Finding and interpret hidden meaning very quick.
    Ni = Observation and perceiving random patterns - Takes time (The Te helps to discard unimportant patterns)

    Ni dom can understand other Ni dom languages very fast I think, at least for me. Sometimes, I use more Ne via online, thus makes me think I'm not an INTJ, in reality I'm totally Ni dom. Although my cognitive function test is more to LII.
    Observation is the key.

  3. #63
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    Broadly scope out alternatives*. Pick the one with the most promise and develop, in my head or on paper, a decently comprehensive plan using it. Place a toe in the waters of that plan, testing it against the real world (feedback from the real world is important!). Course-correct if needed. Rinse and repeat.

    Man, that makes me sound really boring.

    * Here's the brainstorming bit. Really, it's a matter of seeing what ideas may be out there that we can turn completely upside down for our own purposes. If I brainstorm with other people, I'm the one who controls the whiteboard and makes connections throughout the things that we've discussed. I think from the end and the beginning simultaneously, and I constantly strive to tie the two together.

    I dunno. Different problems lend themselves to different modes of thinking. Sometimes, there's no need to brainstorm--or, at least, to include or harp incessantly on alternatives that just will not work.

  4. #64
    Member spiderfrommars's Avatar
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    I'm a Ni-user. My process generally comes down to defining and re-defining the question. This eventually…I guess, erodes it, to the point where it doesn't even exist, as it has been solved. (On the other hand, when my ESFJ friend and I were working on the D&D alignment system (which he both likes and applies to the real world) and I kept asking, "Okay, but what is 'evil' defined by? Is it [x], [y], [elbow]?", it didn't end very well, and no solving occurred.)

    Interestingly, my process often involves other people. If I feel stuck (since I have more of an ability to ask "What am I looking for?" than to suggest a solution), I love to bounce ideas off other people. I enjoy working with a Ne-user, who can give me fresh (…random…) ideas, and/or a Si-user, who can remind me of the last way I solved that or a similar problem.

    The other important step to my creative process is…ignoring the problem. As an example, when I receive an essay prompt, I plan what I want to write that day, and then forget about it until the night before it's due. During that time, Ni has unconsciously planned how to argue the thesis I decided on that first day, so I write very quickly and easily. I do a similar thing with writing stories, planning, taking a break, and then writing them in a quick, frenzied fashion.

    My ENFP roommate, however, tells me she can't plan essays at all or the writing will bore her. And for both essays and stories, she tends to write very slowly, planning every word. It seems that this is the effect of Ne– seeing hundreds of possibilities and needing to pick the right/good (right if Ti, good if Fi) one.

    As a result of my process, I often feel like I don't understand things at all, and then I'll turn around and give an eloquent explanation of the whole thing.

  5. #65
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    ^^ that's awesome...totally wish i could do that. it takes me forever to write...not forum posts at all haha but something as silly as writing on a card...choosing a card to begin with can take so long i often just give up...who cares about cards anyway...
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  6. #66
    Senior Member The Outsider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spiderfrommars View Post
    It seems that this is the effect of Ne– seeing hundreds of possibilities and needing to pick the right/good (right if Ti, good if Fi) one.
    What do you mean by right and good?

  7. #67
    Member spiderfrommars's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Outsider View Post
    What do you mean by right and good?
    I mean, that Ne sees many possibilities, and is trying to choose the optimal one. Right/good was just my division of the language generally used to denote the difference between T/F. So by "right", I meant the possibility that Ti would consider optimal (most logical?) and by "good" I meant the possibility that Fi would consider optimal (feels best). It was sort of a clumsy way of putting it.

  8. #68
    Senior Member The Outsider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spiderfrommars View Post
    I mean, that Ne sees many possibilities, and is trying to choose the optimal one. Right/good was just my division of the language generally used to denote the difference between T/F. So by "right", I meant the possibility that Ti would consider optimal (most logical?) and by "good" I meant the possibility that Fi would consider optimal (feels best). It was sort of a clumsy way of putting it.
    I see, that makes sense.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by spiderfrommars View Post
    My process generally comes down to defining and re-defining the question. This eventually…I guess, erodes it, to the point where it doesn't even exist, as it has been solved. (On the other hand, when my ESFJ friend and I were working on the D&D alignment system (which he both likes and applies to the real world) and I kept asking, "Okay, but what is 'evil' defined by? Is it [x], [y], [elbow]?", it didn't end very well, and no solving occurred.)
    I do this sometimes as well. For me, if I chip away at something from many different angles (asking probing questions with different assumptions, etc.) the picture paints itself with what often seems to be actual minimal effort.

    Coincidentally, I've had to try to crisply define 'evil' as well--it's actually very difficult to do. This then leads to questions such as why it's important to define in the first place, what exactly is it that we're trying to measure, is the thing we're defining actually evil, what are the consequences (if any) if our definition doesn't adequately capture 'evil,' etc. The holistic picture painted by these questions winds up being somewhat difficult to put into words, but it feels like merely posing these questions provides their answers. Or something.

    The other important step to my creative process is…ignoring the problem. As an example, when I receive an essay prompt, I plan what I want to write that day, and then forget about it until the night before it's due. During that time, Ni has unconsciously planned how to argue the thesis I decided on that first day, so I write very quickly and easily. I do a similar thing with writing stories, planning, taking a break, and then writing them in a quick, frenzied fashion.
    And this is a process that I need to practice (or learn to trust), because it sounds awesome as hell.

    --

    Another thought: I don't prefer to concentrate solely on the task at hand. If I'm reading an article to gain insight for one project, for example, my mind cannot help but to constantly jump to applications to other projects. So, I channel this by, for example, marking that article up with few different colors of highlighter, each corresponding to a project. In the end, I've done what I've needed to do--read the article and applied it to the project--but I've also tackled a few other things on the side. What can I say? Jumping from context to context is just something that happens.

    Ah, P

  10. #70
    Member spiderfrommars's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    Another thought: I don't prefer to concentrate solely on the task at hand. If I'm reading an article to gain insight for one project, for example, my mind cannot help but to constantly jump to applications to other projects. So, I channel this by, for example, marking that article up with few different colors of highlighter, each corresponding to a project. In the end, I've done what I've needed to do--read the article and applied it to the project--but I've also tackled a few other things on the side. What can I say? Jumping from context to context is just something that happens.

    Ah, P
    That's a process I want to learn, because it also sounds awesome as hell!

    Yeah, I've found evil is almost impossible to define. I've had an easier time with "good" but "neutral" and "evil" are remarkably hard to tell apart if evil isn't identified as sadism. This is all in a D&D context, obviously, and with the assumption that humans are even capable of comprehending objective morality. Interestingly, the one time I tried to play an evil character, I failed.

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