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  1. #21
    heart on fire
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    INFJ - Introverted iNtuitive Feeling Judging

    Male INFJs have a more problematic situation because the qualities naturally preferred by INFJs are not those traditionally considered to be "male". To counter the image of being weak, male INFJs can become stubborn, often to a degree disproportionate to the situation at hand. They are capable of taking a seemingly small issue and making it seem as if the entire world -- or at least their masculinity -- were riding on the outcome.

  2. #22
    Free-Rangin' Librarian Jae Rae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    Well, I have never met any male ENFPs, but I would conjecture that they would be a slightly to a moderately different kind of breed of ENFP.

    In fact, even on this forum, it is quite easy to detect that there is a difference between the male and female ENFPs.

    There are biological differences between the sexes, and it is a well known fact that women across the board are generally inclined and neurophysiologically more suited to experience empathy more frequently and intensely than men.

    Also, I would venture to say that there are more female ENFPs than male ENFPs

    More male INTPs/INTJs than female INTPs/INTJs

    More female INFPs than male INFPs...
    I know a male ENFP and he's quite empathetic, warm and caring. In the depths of his divorce he said he couldn't stay depressed because he'd feel sad a few minutes, then find something delightful or interesting to think about. I don't know any female ENFPs to compare except here, so it's hard to say how they might differ.

    How do ENTP men and women differ? I know two males, but no females (except on this forum). It surprises me I don't know any women of that type IRL.

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  3. #23
    Senior Member wedekit's Avatar
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    I've never really identified with that quote, though I do believe there is some kind of difference between males and females of each type. I don't really see masculinity as some kind of virtue. I would probably have to say that environment plays a big role in this. Before I go on, let me just say that I find gender studies in psychology absolutely fascinating. I wish that MBTI theorists and researchers would dive deeper into gender differences. There are so many things that are different between men and women in regards to our personality that I have learned about in class that I would say that it is almost inevitable for there distinct differences to exist. (This isn't taking into the account the effect of things such as gender-identity disorder, etc.)

    We all experience different conditioning from our family, peers, and society in general from the time we are born. Studies have even shown that parents interact with newborn boys and girls differently. As we grow our parents buy us toys that are appropriate to our gender as well. Heaven forbid a little boy pick up a doll in front of his dad! If a little boy is running all around the house he is just "being a boy", but if a girl was doing the same she would (in most cases) be told to calm down. Let me give a couple of quotes from my Theories of Personality textbook:

    "Girls are often reminded by peers and media messages that their value depends on how they look. Boys are told that beating others in various competitions is a sign of their self-worth."

    I find this one most relevant to the topic. F's value harmony, and so serious competitions (meaning unfriendly competitions) are not really appealing to them theoretically. I as an F have never really enjoyed serious competitions. However, my parents couldn't stand the idea of an unaccomplished son (both my older brothers were good at sports), so I was always thrown into some kind of competition by them. Fortunately I ended up achieving academically, so they got off my case and let me concentrate on that. Basically, society believes men should be competing with one another (very primal if you ask me), which is contrary to an F's natural tendencies. I would say that because of this pressure my parents put on me I am probably more competitive than your average F. I am not a female T so I don't feel comfortable asserting this but I imagine a strong thinking woman would see looks as less of a priority than other things. However, I'm sure that society has pressured them in many ways to think otherwise. I feel comfortable saying that T women probably enjoy serious competition more than F's, but we all know society's reaction to women who enter into the business world (for lack of a better example of an extremely competitive field), etc. Hell, my family cocked their eyebrows when I told them I was a psych major which is typically a female dominated field (I'm usually the only guy in some of my upper-division psych classes).

    "Participants in one study read about someone who was either highly disclosing or not disclosing about personal problems. Participants who thought they were reading about a female rated the person better adjusted when she was disclosing. When they thought the discloser was male, the disclosure was seen as a sign of poor psychological adjustment.Studies find men and women are more likely to be accepted when they disclose within the appropriate social roles for their gender. For men, this usually means withholding information; for women, it means being open and disclosing, but only on topics society deems appropriate."

    From an F-type that grew up in a house with 3 brothers, I would definitely say that I was raised to not "disclose" my preference openly. My dad's mission when I was a child was to "toughen me up". Just imagine a 6-year-old INFJ outside looking extremely bored while his dad is trying to make him appreciate the art of tossing a baseball back and forth. That is basically the story of my life. My parents constantly tried to "condition" me (not anything abusive, lol) into something more... male as far as interests, hobbies, etc. I know that I'm masculine acting, but if I were to tell you things I am interested in or music that I like, you would see the obvious contrast.

    So, that's my addition to this interesting topic. I just want to point out that I know that there are exceptions to every rule. For example, highly effeminate gay men could potentially fir the female type profile rather than the male type, etc. However, if you were to look at it in the general population I think it sheds some light on this and deserves exploration. There are plenty of straight F men out there that could probably somehow identify with this. My little brother is an F and he participates in sports (my Dad successfully molded him), but he does it more for the social interaction (to "hang out with the guys") and less for the competition.

    This is an excellent article related to the topic: What's It Like To Be A Thinking Woman? What's It Like To Be A Feeling Man?
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  4. #24
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wedekit View Post
    I've never really identified with that quote, though I do believe there is some kind of difference between males and females of each type. I don't really see masculinity as some kind of virtue. I would probably have to say that environment plays a big role in this. Before I go on, let me just say that I find gender studies in psychology absolutely fascinating. I wish that MBTI theorists and researchers would dive deeper into gender differences. There are so many things that are different between men and women in regards to our personality that I have learned about in class that I would say that it is almost inevitable for there distinct differences to exist. (This isn't taking into the account the effect of things such as gender-identity disorder, etc.)

    We all experience different conditioning from our family, peers, and society in general from the time we are born. Studies have even shown that parents interact with newborn boys and girls differently. As we grow our parents buy us toys that are appropriate to our gender as well. Heaven forbid a little boy pick up a doll in front of his dad! If a little boy is running all around the house he is just "being a boy", but if a girl was doing the same she would (in most cases) be told to calm down. Let me give a couple of quotes from my Theories of Personality textbook:

    "Girls are often reminded by peers and media messages that their value depends on how they look. Boys are told that beating others in various competitions is a sign of their self-worth."

    I find this one most relevant to the topic. F's value harmony, and so serious competitions (meaning unfriendly competitions) are not really appealing to them theoretically. I as an F have never really enjoyed serious competitions. However, my parents couldn't stand the idea of an unaccomplished son (both my older brothers were good at sports), so I was always thrown into some kind of competition by them. Fortunately I ended up achieving academically, so they got off my case and let me concentrate on that. Basically, society believes men should be competing with one another (very primal if you ask me), which is contrary to an F's natural tendencies. I would say that because of this pressure my parents put on me I am probably more competitive than your average F. I am not a female T so I don't feel comfortable asserting this but I imagine a strong thinking woman would see looks as less of a priority than other things. However, I'm sure that society has pressured them in many ways to think otherwise. I feel comfortable saying that T women probably enjoy serious competition more than F's, but we all know society's reaction to women who enter into the business world (for lack of a better example of an extremely competitive field), etc. Hell, my family cocked their eyebrows when I told them I was a psych major which is typically a female dominated field (I'm usually the only guy in some of my upper-division psych classes).

    "Participants in one study read about someone who was either highly disclosing or not disclosing about personal problems. Participants who thought they were reading about a female rated the person better adjusted when she was disclosing. When they thought the discloser was male, the disclosure was seen as a sign of poor psychological adjustment.Studies find men and women are more likely to be accepted when they disclose within the appropriate social roles for their gender. For men, this usually means withholding information; for women, it means being open and disclosing, but only on topics society deems appropriate."

    From an F-type that grew up in a house with 3 brothers, I would definitely say that I was raised to not "disclose" my preference openly. My dad's mission when I was a child was to "toughen me up". Just imagine a 6-year-old INFJ outside looking extremely bored while his dad is trying to make him appreciate the art of tossing a baseball back and forth. That is basically the story of my life. My parents constantly tried to "condition" me (not anything abusive, lol) into something more... male as far as interests, hobbies, etc. I know that I'm masculine acting, but if I were to tell you things I am interested in or music that I like, you would see the obvious contrast.

    So, that's my addition to this interesting topic. I just want to point out that I know that there are exceptions to every rule. For example, highly effeminate gay men could potentially fir the female type profile rather than the male type, etc. However, if you were to look at it in the general population I think it sheds some light on this and deserves exploration. There are plenty of straight F men out there that could probably somehow identify with this. My little brother is an F and he participates in sports (my Dad successfully molded him), but he does it more for the social interaction (to "hang out with the guys") and less for the competition.

    This is an excellent article related to the topic: What's It Like To Be A Thinking Woman? What's It Like To Be A Feeling Man?

    I am a pretty competitive F male. I am not cutthroat, though. I enjoy the things at which I compete (video games, chess, football). Breaking the rules and bad sportsmanship make me more angry than losing, though. I have the old-school coach mentality. Prepare a lot, give 110%, leave it all on the field, and go drink beer with your foe afterwards. Competitive chess got pretty nasty, BTW. Some of those people have no other interests, and they can be socially awkward, leading to some inappropriate behavior whether in victory or defeat.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  5. #25
    Welcome to Sunnyside Mondo's Avatar
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    I find that female T's are more affectionate than male T's, but that may just be because I'm irresistible.

    As a guy who is an F, I find that I can be incredibly loving with my friends who are girls.
    I am far from competitive, but can be when I need to.
    I can be playfully competitive.

  6. #26
    Senior Member wedekit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    I am a pretty competitive F male. I am not cutthroat, though. I enjoy the things at which I compete (video games, chess, football). Breaking the rules and bad sportsmanship make me more angry than losing, though. I have the old-school coach mentality. Prepare a lot, give 110%, leave it all on the field, and go drink beer with your foe afterwards. Competitive chess got pretty nasty, BTW. Some of those people have no other interests, and they can be socially awkward, leading to some inappropriate behavior whether in victory or defeat.
    I think I wasn't very clear about my point. I mostly mean that competing against others to prove your worth isn't an F quality. We would prefer to peacefully coexist than to prove ourselves to be superior to others via competition. I also like more friendly competitions in video games, chess, etc. Competitive things are fun with friends, but to try and crush others to ease some kind of feeling of inferiority is not my thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mondo View Post
    I find that female T's are more affectionate than male T's, but that may just be because I'm irresistible.

    As a guy who is an F, I find that I can be incredibly loving with my friends who are girls.
    I am far from competitive, but can be when I need to.
    I can be playfully competitive.
    Yeah, that's pretty much how I am. I don't seek or prefer serious competition like some, but I don't run away from it. I really didn't have anything to back that idea up, but also do believe that men and women always have traits related to their gender. The male brain is naturally better with spatial tasks (such as mentally rotating groups of blocks) and women are better with language and face recognition naturally. All these kinds of subtle differences are related to their gender biologically, but I'm sure they make some kind of difference in their personality as well.
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    I read that male Feelers will be more stubborn to try and compensate for the softness they perceive in themeselves because of feeling.
    This describes my ISFJ boyfriend very well. However, he'll always feel badly after he's ridiculously stubborn.

    I feel his super stubbornness surfaces when he's trying to be more "manly". I also find that he'll occasionally take a stubborn, almost irrational stance during an argument that he is taking personally instead of just saying "Hey, that hurt me." or "I feel really bad."

    He's very sensitive, but I find it'll sometimes play out in a quiet moodiness over being outright emotional.

  8. #28
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    My T sister, and T best friend are Karaaaaazzzzyyyyy competitive!!!

    My thoughts on competition are this, it is healthy in some respects, but I think people should strive to compete with themselves. I have witnessed so many tears, egos crushed, and "tragic" endings, to competitions where the inevitable "loser", by having "lost" had had their feelings crushed.

    Winners and losers, something about that I just don't like.

    Men tend to be naturally inclined to be more competitive than women, and women tend to be naturally inclined to be more cooperative.

    I don't know, as a female ENFP I seek situations where many, if not most, participants can feel like "winners". It is against my nature to compete with others, though if I perceive a person to be a big meanie, I will bend these rules a bit.
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    I don't really type people, however I have always cataloged people as "cold or warm" and cold correlates with T, and warm correlates with F.
    I'm an F female but I'm mostly seen as *cold* outwardly, until people talk to me and then it's "Wow, you're so much different than I thought! You seemed so mean or snobby! Or like you hate/dislike people!" Or quiet. Or just evil o_O Or weird because I'm anti-social... and then weird because I'm suddenly social..

    Sometimes I'm told by some in a festive environment that I seemed so outgoing or talkative or nice but the next time I'm seen, it's a wonder at how insanely silent I am or that I look like I'm about to telepathically mind-fuck someone when I'm probably just zoing out z.z' (or I might be staring for some time at someone's face because I just can't fricken recall their name! And then "OH! Hey ___!" *calms down* "Why're you looking at me like that? No, I'm not angry at you... ~_~"

    I think it's an INFJ thing. We seem reserved outwardly, at times, and at times we don't. Cold outside, warm inside. It can be tricky for others or until they get to know us a bit better... I wonder that male INFJs might seem more cold, hmm?

    @ heart. Shove that towards Kiddo's way, won'tcha? He still might be digging in the Graveyard...

    @ Competition. I've always loved it! But I played in *group* sports. I loved creating strategies for volleyball (I was a setter. Got to set it all up ha ha..) or ensuring that we ALL won. And clapped the losing teams hands in the end. Oh, when they were bitter, it was sad...didn't like that !_! If members on my team would get irked by it, I'd try to mediate b/w them. Video games, I'll pwn you without mercy o_o Losing is hard !_! Don't want to lose! I could get stuck playing for hours if I wasn't careful... At least, I used to. I probably suck now !_!

  10. #30
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    Ts as being competitive... My sis is an INTJ. She can be very competitive, but it depends when and for what..and with whom. Debating... or arguments... If you are incompetent to begin with, she will not even bat an eyelash to bother. She just won't care to.

    She's competitive to succeed with school (and eventually with her career. She's 15 and gung ho set to figure it all out now. z.z). But she doesn't look so bothered to others or as anal as some. She won't kill herself for not getting a 99 or 97 etc. She'll just Eh it. Probably had to do with detail stuff she didn't care to work through. Even though school is important, she'd sooner take a Fail at a group project if the people in the group were being idiots. As she once opted for as she was doing all the work and the kids were bickering/doing nothing (and she knew they wouldn't from the get go but beared with it til it became too much to deal with), but she was told no other option! Too bad! But the project was dismissed anyway. She hated the idea of giving that mark up, but she was set to do it, and all was well in the end anyway, so no dropped mark.. ^_^ (she even called me b/c she was *that* upset ...she rarely gets upset...visibly, anyway..)

    She can feel the hard drive to win while playing sports. But she's not an athlete as I was. But when playing games, the aim is to destroy you. But it's not vicious, even if it seems like she has no mercy o_O (though she's no monster z.z It's people who are weak!)

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