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  1. #21
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    ^LOL. I totally didn't notice that. My whole post is a meta example of itself. Ha.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

    5w4 sx/sp Johari / Nohari

  2. #22
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    We notice the "important" details because we have a very definite understanding of how something "works." If we see evidence that would confirm or deny that "working", prove or disprove that internal Ni model of the Se world, those details pop out almost magically. We pay very close attention to those details without even realizing we are doing so.
    It can be like putting together a jigsaw puzzle. Out of the sea of facts and details, those that fit the still-empty spaces immediately stand out.

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    The biggest thing is when they 1) critique of my ideas in front of others, 2) don't provide support for that critique when pressed for examples or facts to back it up and 3) don't offer a solution. It feels like they are just making potshots.
    How typical is the highlighted of INTPs? My SO does this all the time (can't provide facts and examples), and it is one of the few things that just drives me round the bend.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  3. #23
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post

    How typical is the highlighted of INTPs? My SO does this all the time (can't provide facts and examples), and it is one of the few things that just drives me round the bend.
    An analogy I can give is that similar to how INTJs may have some difficulty expressing Ni immediately before having to translate both the content and structure of the ideas and thoughts into something that can be understood by others, INTPs can have a similar difficulty in expressing their critiques; they'll hinge on highly general and almost instinctual, non-verbal understanding of how an idea just doesn't work structurally but can't really find "facts and examples" immediately. It's just not the direction their minds work, it's as though you're asking them to go from 5th gear into reverse. The gears are going to grind. They'll get around to it. Maybe

    INTPs will probably just throw you a connected idea or similar context to show you why it won't work rather than some data set or facts anyways, since "facts and examples" aren't particularly important to them cognitively; they all just point back to deeper principles and structure so why bother.



  4. #24
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    They say that N's aren't interested in details. From what I've suspected, Ni seems to have a very keen interest in them, they bring all the details together to reach the one "true answer." No detail is unimportant- everything like goes into their reservoir of information. It seems like people who I suspect are Ni doms and auxs couldn't do what they do without some level of focus on the small things.

    True or false? Elaborate.
    I've kept your question in mind for the last two weeks (luckily this didn't go on for years). I've decided that the Ni detail-orientedness you refer to is an obsession over controlling the details (facts, figures, etc.) in order to squeeze out of them even the remotest possibility of an idea which may eventually further progress.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  5. #25
    Senior Member chris1207's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    They say that N's aren't interested in details. From what I've suspected, Ni seems to have a very keen interest in them, they bring all the details together to reach the one "true answer." No detail is unimportant- everything like goes into their reservoir of information. It seems like people who I suspect are Ni doms and auxs couldn't do what they do without some level of focus on the small things.

    True or false? Elaborate.
    False. They enjoy details that back up their conceptual distinctions. Being that most people are conceptual morons, Ni users go out of their way to juxtapose as many samples/examples as possible to convey their concepts. If they learned to articulate the dichotomies that Ni creates, they'd be able to translate and explain them for what they are rather than using examples.

    Ni => Se and Se => Ni is also semiology. It's the correspondence between externalized arrays of sensory detail and complex underlying meaning. A simpler example would be the correspondence between the color green and the concepts of 'good' or 'going' (stop-light.) This is contrasted with the color red, which means 'alert' or 'stop'. It's worth pointing out that by complex underlying meaning I don't, necessarily, mean structurally complex but rather a complex of meaning distinctions. Because Ni is introverted it is binary, because it is binary it is nuanced and difficult to articulate. Less mature NJ's use examples because it's the most effective way of communicating to a world that is, primarily, filled with sensors.
    "... you think deeply about stuff [that] nobody cares about and hardly anybody can understand you." ~ Peguy talking about Ni users. So true.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris1207 View Post
    Less mature NJ's use examples because it's the most effective way of communicating to a world that is, primarily, filled with sensors.
    If examples are the most effective way to communicate, aren't they actually a pretty mature thing to use? What would be better--perhaps analogies and metaphors, or perhaps not worrying about communicating at all?

  7. #27
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    If examples are the most effective way to communicate, aren't they actually a pretty mature thing to use? What would be better--perhaps analogies and metaphors, or perhaps not worrying about communicating at all?
    Agreed. I would think that explaining a concept to a Sensor using examples is a mature thing. But then, so is using concrete analogies and metaphors. The attempt to communicate is not exactly what I would call immature.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  8. #28
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    They say that N's aren't interested in details. From what I've suspected, Ni seems to have a very keen interest in them, they bring all the details together to reach the one "true answer." No detail is unimportant- everything like goes into their reservoir of information. It seems like people who I suspect are Ni doms and auxs couldn't do what they do without some level of focus on the small things.

    True or false? Elaborate.
    I mean, it's not like a person can just ignore details in general.

    As a perceiving function, Ni takes input from the environment (which has some level of detail of course). But the function is focused on details/information relevant to the current abstract thought process.

    Anyway, there's always gonna be an interplay between N and S. An Ni dom will just twist all the S stuff to fit in the N framework, throwing away details willy-nilly. At least that's what people tell me.

    Edit: I recently ran into this dude from my high school that I hadn't talked to in 7-8 years. We were talking in a group for a minute or two and after I make a few comments he goes, "oh, there you go again -- oversimplifying and pretending neat little themes dictate everything." I had no idea how apparent this trait of mine has always been...

  9. #29
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    Anyway, there's always gonna be an interplay between N and S. An Ni dom will just twist all the S stuff to fit in the N framework, throwing away details willy-nilly. At least that's what people tell me.
    Willy-nilly? Not quite. Relevancy is defined by the Ni user.

  10. #30
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    Willy-nilly? Not quite. Relevancy is defined by the Ni user.
    I just meant it probably looks willy-nilly to other people. The details I focus on all make perfect sense in my mind at least.

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