Ni vs. Ne communication

[Zarathustra]

Thus far:

# of posts by Ne users: 38
# of posts by Ni users: 18

After briefly looking at this thread a few days ago, I figured this is what would happen.

Maybe Ne users talk too much compared to most-
Or maybe Ni users just don't talk enough compared to the general population.
Or there happens to be more Ne than Ni users active today!
Or more Ne users in general, since there are more Ne users in the general public-
Or maybe some Ne users are mistyped and should really be Ni,
And visa versa-
Or maybe this type of topic is more appealing to an Ne user!
Or!- (wanders off rambling)

I'll help you: or maybe a meteor came down from the sky today and killed most of the Ni population. Could be...!

Or... Ne types pretty much rule this forum

Or maybe we find you all obnoxious...

 

[Glycerine]

Question for Ni: How do you approach brainstorming?

Do you enjoy it? Leave it up to the Ne-ers? Be the one to eliminate the ideas you think won't work and focus on the good ones?

I hate brainstorming.... it tends to confuse and overwhelm me (for the lack of a better word)..... get to the point dammit (my typical thinking). On the other hand, I hate confined thinking like outlines, flow charts.
EDIT: However, if an Ne user wants a full on analysis, then my Ni is happy to oblige.

 

[lunalum]

Or maybe we find you all obnoxious...

Oooh perspective shift....

But then the question remains of what is the nature of this theoretical obnoxiousness that is acting as the Ni repellant. Too many questions? (If I don't get an answer to this I have a good sense of my answer )

 

[Zarathustra]

Oooh perspective shift.... But then the question remains of what is the nature of this theoretical obnoxiousness that is acting as the Ni repellant. Too many questions? (If I don't get an answer to this I have a good sense of my answer )

I'll answer by responding to redcheerio.

Question for Ni: How do you approach brainstorming?

Do you enjoy it? Leave it up to the Ne-ers? Be the one to eliminate the ideas you think won't work and focus on the good ones?

I have no problem with brainstorming.

What I do have a problem with is stupid brainstorming.

Brainstorming is often conducted as an attempt to discover the causality of a particular phenomenon.

"Ok, so what's causing this? Possibility A? Possibility B? Possibility C?"

There are answers that are more useful and answers that are less useful to reach the proper conclusion.

You could put these answers on a spectrum of usefulness, one side being absolutely useless, the other being absolutely useful.

My problem with Ne is that it seems to have little regard for where a possibility falls on this spectrum of usefulness.

By contrast, from the very get-go, I evaluate every possibility as to where it likely falls on this spectrum.

I use every facet of my brain to arrive at this conclusion; it's one of the things I'm good at.

Ne-ers seem to just throw random shit against the wall.

It's obnoxious, and doesn't help accomplish the goal.

This is why I argued in one of my earliest started threads here that there's something about Pi that is instrinsically linked to Judging.

By its very nature, Pi seems to be looking for those most important possibilities, which then helps it accomplish a Je imperative.

So, if I'm brainstorming with others, there's probably some imperative we're trying to accomplish.

And Ne'ers often seem to derail and inefficiently go about accomplishing that imperative.

They are often more damaging to the process than beneficial.

 

[Sniffles]

I have no problem with brainstorming.

What I do have a problem with is stupid brainstorming.

My problem with Ne is that it seems to have little regard for where a possibility falls on this spectrum of usefulness.

Yeah this parallels my thoughts on brainstorming - although I probably would've stated my position more diplomatically(hey I'm a Fe-user).

 

[Zarathustra]

Yeah this parallels my thoughts on brainstorming - although I probably would've stated my position more diplomatically (hey I'm a Fe-user).

Yes, well, as Orobas said recently:

Z's ideas are crafted and solid or questioning and sometimes offensive.

Or, in short, I'm kind of an asshole.

^^ That being said, when it comes to creativity, I think Ne is priceless.

I give made props to many an ENTP for the hilarious connections they make.

I also love the lyrics and poetry made by many an NFP; my favorite lyricist is an INFP.

I think Ne is the function most highly associated with creativity, and properly so.

 

[Glycerine]

I'll answer by responding to redcheerio.



I have no problem with brainstorming.

What I do have a problem with is stupid brainstorming.

Brainstorming is often conducted as an attempt to discover the causality of a particular phenomenon.

"Ok, so what's causing this? Possibility A? Possibility B? Possibility C?"

There are answers that are more useful and answers that are less useful to reach the proper conclusion.

You could put these answers on a spectrum of usefulness, one side being absolutely useless, the other being absolutely useful.

My problem with Ne is that it seems to have little regard for where a possibility falls on this spectrum of usefulness.

By contrast, from the very get-go, I evaluate every possibility as to where it likely falls on this spectrum.

I use every facet of my brain to arrive at this conclusion, and it's one of the things I'm good at.

Ne-ers seem to just throw random shit against the wall.

It's obnoxious, and doesn't help accomplish the goal.

This is why I argued in one of my earliest started threads here that there's something about Pi that is instrinsically linked to Judging.

By its very nature, Pi seems to be looking for those most important possibilities, which then helps it accomplish a Je imperative.

So, if I'm brainstorming with others, there's probably some imperative we're trying to accomplish.

And Ne'ers often seem to derail and inefficiently go about accomplishing that imperative.

They are often more damaging to the process than beneficial.

Z, said it more intelligently. I can totally relate. With Ne users, it can seem like trying to find the needle in the haystack cutting through the fluff. While I am analyzing the first few possibilities, Ne users will come up w/ 20 more. lol

 

[Sniffles]

While I am analyzing the first few possibilities, Ne users will come up w/ 20 more. lol

The Hydra effect as we now know it in this thread.

 

[Glycerine]

BEWARE.

 

[Zarathustra]

Oh, and here comes NiTe...

 

[011235813]

Oooh perspective shift....

But then the question remains of what is the nature of this theoretical obnoxiousness that is acting as the Ni repellant. Too many questions? (If I don't get an answer to this I have a good sense of my answer )

From my experience growing up with a pair of Ni dom/aux parents: in general, we didn't have much trouble understanding each other, but they're teachers so that helped. What they usually had problems with was the fact that I would often take small things out of context and run with them on my own tangents just because I thought they were interesting, and forget, in the process, to grasp the entirety of the thought they'd expressed.

In turn, they sometimes wondered why I had such a circuitous way of doing things and just wanted me to get to the point and I was like, "Look, I'm trying to fit all these cool and totally relevant things into my schema, and I'm interested in them, so let me finish before you decide for me what I should be focussing on, will you?! I AM BEING OPPRESSED, WAAH."

 

[Zarathustra]

From my experience growing up with a pair of Ni dom/aux parents: in general, we didn't have much trouble understanding each other...

I agree, I think we do tend to understand each other pretty well.

That's why, when people start talking about "I can't see this person's Ni/Ne/Si/Se/yada yada", I'm like, I dunno if that's the best language to describe it... I think we get each other a lot of the time; our brains/minds just function differently. [MENTION=6166]Orobas[/MENTION]

...but they're teachers so that helped.

Well, when it comes to Ni and Ne, isn't that just a tautology?

What they usually had problems with was the fact that I would often take small things out of context and run with them on my own tangents just because I thought they were interesting, and forget, in the process, to grasp the entirety of the thought they'd expressed.

Yup, that's the main one.

The other annoying one, which has been described above as well (I believe by Giegs), is when we go in-depth about a matter, not just normal-analysis mode, but our real in-depth, at-our-best stuff, and you guys seem to have no idea what we're talking about. It's like, "Dude... this is my best shit right here! You think I'm smart cuz of all the normal stuff we talk about, but for Christ's sake! This is THE BEST SHIT I have to offer! And you don't even get it!!!" Haha, yeah, as you can see, that one's frustrating. But, now that I think about it, they're probably just manifestations of the same underlying issue: just, in this case, when we're going really in depth into something, like in the previous example, you guys keep firing away on a thousand different paths, and it utterly confuses you, but now, there's probably that much more material for you to go off on. It makes us feel like you guys don't really seem to understand how to dive deep into the issue, at least not in the way or with the language that we use to do so. That's the weird part, though. Cuz I don't think you guys lack depth. I think NFPs have Fi depth and NTPs have Ti depth. It's just, for whatever reason, I dunno, maybe it's the language used, you guys just don't seem to get our depth. Maybe Fi and Ti can't translate Ni, and when you try to use Ne to translate, it only does so partially, before it runs off and does what it does, chasing some offshoot of the explanation we're diving deeply into.

*sounds of Ne'ers footsteps running in a thousand different directions*

In turn, they sometimes wondered why I had such a circuitous way of doing things and just wanted me to get to the point and I was like, "Look, I'm trying to fit all these cool and totally relevant things into my schema, and I'm interested in them, so let me finish before you decide for me what I should be focussing on, will you?! I AM BEING OPPRESSED, WAAH."

 

[Glycerine]

[MENTION=13147]senza_tema[/MENTION], I bet you are well aware of the Ni tendency to beat the dead horse, huh?

 

[Zarathustra]

 

[Zarathustra]

 

[Zarathustra]

/ thread

 

[011235813]

[MENTION=13147]senza_tema[/MENTION], I bet you are well aware of the Ni tendency to beat the dead horse, huh?

Am I ever.

I don't want to overstate the frustration though because it's really only occasional. I have enlightening and fruitful conversations with you folks more often than not.

/ thread

OMG, I'M NOT DONE YET, THERE ARE SEVERAL FACTORS OF VAST IMPORTANCE THAT WE HAVEN'T EVEN BEGUN TO CONSIDER.

 

[INTP]

While I am analyzing the first few possibilities, Ne users will come up w/ 20 more. lol

Yea the slowness of Ni is pain in the ass when trying to brainstorm with Ni dom. I have gone miles ahead then suddwnly realize that i lost Ni guy somewhere and need to head back looking at him and he is still pondering the first question and wont stop doing so, so i keep telling him to drop it and that i already figured that it doesent fit..
So at least with my INTJ friend it usually ends up me explaining to him why the things i have thought ages ago wont work, him being stubborn and not believing me. Or me figuring out something and him not being able to understand, because hes still thinking about the basics.. Not saying that he is stupid and cant offer anything, but his methodology is too slow for brainstorming, unless hes the expert and im the noob at the subject.

ENTP is much more fun with this

 

[Glycerine]

Am I ever.

I don't want to overstate the frustration though because it's really only occasional. I have enlightening and fruitful conversations with you folks more often than not.

haha, I was just trying to even out the playing field a bit so it's all good. I see it as much of a downside as the hydra effect. hydra + a dead horse= a wonderful combo.

 

[Red Herring]

So it's

vs

I am familiar with the hydra effect both from inside the hydra (in discussions I'm struggling to juggle all those balls because it's not so much mindless hopping around as it is trying to control an ever expanding net of interrelated thoughts and aspects with Ti being out for the logical basis for Ne's instinctual association. i.e. Ne senses a link between two things and Ti looks at WTF the structural parallel between them is ...and usually finds something!!) and outside of it (during conversations with other Ne users the juggling goes on, only this time I am trying to respond to several points the other one made without losing sight of the different balls while I still of associations of my own going on...it can get complicated )

That being said. I do admire Ni's capacity for concentration and air of seriousness. They stick to their points like barnacles. That and your average J's voice of conviction ("It's like this, period.") can be intimidating at times but it can also blind them to alternative approaches.

All in all I find Ni users to be interesting partners for conversation. The only thing that will drive me crazy is the combined double punch result of Te's annoying disregard for solid definitions and Ni's infamous perspective shift: they say A, you disprove A and they suddenly twist the definition of A (or it turns out they never had it clearly defined to begin with!) to weasle their way out. Or you say B and they get hung up on one partial aspect of B but do not manage to see it in a broader, more holistic context (I said "x is a bit like y in that bla bla bla", not "x equals y", so get over it already! *sigh*).