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  1. #21
    Senior Member redcheerio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    My experience is that the ne user will focus on external associations. They aren't typically concerned with the details of 1 thing. They are concerned with how that one thing relates to another thing, and yet another, expanding each thing into a bigger, and biggest picture. The ni user otoh, focuses on the 1 thing. They look at every detail of that one thing, every angle, its past, its pattern, its future. They must tear it apart to understand it. The ne user must connect it to understand it.
    That's a great way to describe it. I think the reason I was good at math, was because whenever we were taught something new in class, I would daydream about how it connected to everything else I knew about math, and what the implications were. I was building a network in my head of how everything was connected.

    Also, I can't understand the significance of new information or remember it, without understanding how it connects to the big picture.

  2. #22
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    I've always seen it as Ni draws in, Ne breaks out.

    My experience is that the ne user will focus on external associations. They aren't typically concerned with the details of 1 thing. They are concerned with how that one thing relates to another thing, and yet another, expanding each thing into a bigger, and biggest picture. The ni user otoh, focuses on the 1 thing. They look at every detail of that one thing, every angle, its past, its pattern, its future. They must tear it apart to understand it. The ne user must connect it to understand it.

    I've always found nening nothing short of spectacular, but there are disagreements.. and they usually boil down to different focus.

    This doesn't sit well with me for some reason. I guess I don't feel like this fits how I feel like my Ni works. I can contemplate many facets of something (not just one thing), it's just that I have to take each facet and roll it around in my hands and get intimate with it, then figure out where it goes in the scheme of things....like constructing a huge jenga monolith, and you want to make it as high as possible...i.e. do the most with what you've got; figure it out; exploit it; understand it entirely. I guess that is why Ni takes longer; it's more purposeful?

    I feel like I use induction more than deduction personally. I think Ti users are more likely to tear something apart to understand it. I'd personally rather start from scratch, not tearing anything apart, because I don't like to fix things. I like to create them. Or see something entirely afresh....so it's not a breaking down for me as much as a putting together, or finding the way.

    But Ne is funner and probably accomplishes more because you oft don't have to go so deep, do you? And it's fun to see all the ways something could fit together, and it's very entertaining.
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  3. #23
    (blankpages) Xenon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redcheerio View Post
    To me, it seeeeems like Ne is more easily articulate than Ni, but I've also seen some very articulate Ni explanations. It may just be that I understand Ne better (and therefore it seems more articulate to me) because it's my own thought process.

    And as was mentioned in the Ne vs Ni thread a few months ago, Ne seems more likely to sum things up, while Ni seems more likely to write walls of text.
    I experience Ne users' train of thought as being easier to follow as well. With Ni users, I sometimes have to concentrate more and sometimes reread sentences to be able to follow them. With other NPs, this is usually effortless.

    I see some pretty impressive walls of text from Ne users and Ni users alike (the introverts mainly, I don't see E's doing it as much). The difference is Ne users go branching off in lots of different directions, thinking of idea after idea, ramification after ramification, speculation after speculation, possibility after possibility. There isn't as much focus on a single idea. I love the "hydra-like" description from @Peguy actually....that's what it can feel like to me from the inside too, when I'm reading or listening to someone. Sometimes I don't even finish a post because my mind goes in all these different directions in response to some point being made, and I feel like I want to just go explore all of them. But then I start typing about one I want to think it through and make sure it's accurate and explain it properly, and the idea of doing that with each idea just feels like too much and I just go...'Oh, forget it'.

    I'm thinking it's somewhat different for extraverted Ne users though. They more often like to just throw their ideas out there and see what happens next, or something.

    Lately I've sometimes just decided to write about one or two ideas I've had while reading a thread, and leave the rest (maybe mentioning it later if it comes up again in the thread), just to get something posted. So, that's what I'll do now.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    This doesn't sit well with me for some reason. I guess I don't feel like this fits how I feel like my Ni works. I can contemplate many facets of something (not just one thing), it's just that I have to take each facet and roll it around in my hands and get intimate with it, then figure out where it goes in the scheme of things....like constructing a huge jenga monolith, and you want to make it as high as possible...i.e. do the most with what you've got; figure it out; exploit it; understand it entirely. I guess that is why Ni takes longer; it's more purposeful?

    I feel like I use induction more than deduction personally. I think Ti users are more likely to tear something apart to understand it. I'd personally rather start from scratch, not tearing anything apart, because I don't like to fix things. I like to create them. Or see something entirely afresh....so it's not a breaking down for me as much as a putting together, or finding the way.

    But Ne is funner and probably accomplishes more because you oft don't have to go so deep, do you? And it's fun to see all the ways something could fit together, and it's very entertaining.
    Yes, I can see this, and expect an ni user would know better about ni than I would. Using the "1 thing" was poor choice of words. I agree that ni deconstructs then puts it back together. What I should say is that ni will draw from multiple sources to understand the *responce* to symbolization, while ne associates it. Ni builds the jenga monolith, then ne wonders how it associates with 5 card draw.

    Edit: I also believe that ne can be just as purposeful as ni. Again, just a different focus.
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

  5. #25
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    What Peguy said about the hydra. I only know one Ne but that's the way it is. It's as if all the possibilities are beloved entities and he doesn't want to hurt any of their feelings, so if you bring up one, all the others have to be taken out and examined, to show them equal respect. This makes it nearly impossible to get things narrowed down to an actual decision, and go forth, gathering speed and momentum and actually accomplishing things. It's also difficult to get a unequivocal directive from Ne, because mine, at least, resists it. Instead of "go do thus and so," he describes the situation and talks about all the possibilities, and waits for me to sum it up and herd it into a direction. Which I can do. But if the next step, for example, means he needs to make any kind of an appointment, it's likely to get put off. He can't stand an "either this, or that" decision; it's like he resents it. Hates being pinned down in any way, evades rather than says no.

    On the good side, it's taught me to hang fire until the last possible minute and still be confident that things will work out. I make a plan before I carry on; he carries on without a plan. I've seen that either way can work. It's just hard to coordinate efforts without a firm and communicable orientation in time and space.

    Edit: For me, Huxley's post described it well and totally resonated.

  6. #26
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    As a Ni-aux, when communicating with a Ne dom in anything serious, I don't waste time following their rabbit hole arguments. They're just distractions from the main discussion.

  7. #27
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    All the posts about Ne make a lot of sense to me. I bounce from idea to idea usually and it's really difficult sometimes to stop and explore them more in depth, lest the bounce loses its momentum. Without the bouncing ideas, I feel that everything is meaningless and gray. I get stuck somewhere in my head and it's somewhat difficult to get out of this funk. Ne is akin to spider silk, connecting everything together and showing me a beautiful web of interconnectedness. Nothing has to be meaningless anymore. I enjoy talking to Ne people for that reason, I get to add more silk to the web.

    I understand Ni intuitively but I can't really explain it. Ni people seem really intense and focused. They also make me feel stupid whenever they share a new way of looking at things, mostly because I don't naturally go to such depths.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thealchemist View Post
    ... I feel that everything is meaningless and gray. I get stuck somewhere in my head and it's somewhat difficult to get out of this funk.
    That's exactly how I feel on the receiving end of the bouncing -- you described it perfectly. It's a bad space to be in, at work. But I know from experience that it will end and something will make me happy about it again, so I wait it out. I just do better when I can do my own thing separate from having to depend on a decision from the Ne. Occasionally I get in trouble for going ahead, but most of the time, he's either relieved or I am happier to take the flak if I made the wrong choice than I would be to have kept bouncing.

    Socially and in a relationship that is just for fun, though, there's no one better to be around. Also to get a new perspective, that's the go-to person.

  9. #29
    From the Undertow CuriousFeeling's Avatar
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    As an Ni-dom, I've noticed many times my verbal communication seems quite knotted and twisted, it's as if I'm coming up with the precise terms in real time, and it doesn't quite work 100%... because my own personal precise term doesn't always make sense to everyone else. I really need to sit and think about what I am going to say before I blurt things out. I'm kind of verbose in my writing! Long-windedness, yep, I have it.
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    That's exactly how I feel on the receiving end of the bouncing -- you described it perfectly. It's a bad space to be in, at work. But I know from experience that it will end and something will make me happy about it again, so I wait it out. I just do better when I can do my own thing separate from having to depend on a decision from the Ne. Occasionally I get in trouble for going ahead, but most of the time, he's either relieved or I am happier to take the flak if I made the wrong choice than I would be to have kept bouncing.

    Socially and in a relationship that is just for fun, though, there's no one better to be around. Also to get a new perspective, that's the go-to person.
    I'm still trying to imagine what it must be like to people on the receiving end. I'm glad you enjoy the Ne-trips. I can't stop thinking of Ne as a sort of drug.

    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousFeeling View Post
    As an Ni-dom, I've noticed many times my verbal communication seems quite knotted and twisted, it's as if I'm coming up with the precise terms in real time, and it doesn't quite work 100%... because my own personal precise term doesn't always make sense to everyone else. I really need to sit and think about what I am going to say before I blurt things out. I'm kind of verbose in my writing! Long-windedness, yep, I have it.
    OH! My sister is an INFJ and when she's telling us something, she usually does exactly what you've described.

    On the other hand, I give a brief summary and wait for questions. I'm better at responding to questions than at just "telling" it because I wouldn't know where to start and will probably go into a zillion tangents. Ideally, I'd use charts (flow charts most probably) to express things.

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