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What causes us to prefer Thinking or Feeling?

CuriousFeeling

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Unfortunately they didn't focus on why, this information was brought to show how something else worked. I think males are more sensitive to estrogen, while females are more sensitive to testosterone, which in turn would mean that it would take much less testosterone levels to affect females and much less estrogen to affect males F/T preferences. So in the end F males still have higher testosterone levels than T females, and vice versa.

This helps answer my question, thanks. It would be something that researchers could study further to verify if females are more sensitive to even small rises in testosterone levels, and if males are more sensitive to small rises in estrogen levels, and see how it influences personality type.
 

INTP

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Genes and most likely epigenetics plays a role also.

Twin studies has shown so much evidence on personality being genetic, that there is no doubt about that. But whats still bit controversial is how much environment has effect to core aspects of personality(like typology).

And epigenetics is basically environmental factors activating and deactivating genes and it seems that there is individual differences on how easily genes get activated/deactivated by environment.

Now you have to keep in mind that typology is basically differences on patterns of brain activity and stuff like more info flowing to visual cortex from other parts on cerebral cortex.

Even tho if some gene that makes you T would deactivate, the connections between brain areas that make you T still remain strong. Naturally brains do shape even as adults(brain plasticity slows down tho the older you get), but the differences on brain activity between some types are HUGE and the whole brain is wired to work with these existing patterns.
 

INTP

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This helps answer my question, thanks. It would be something that researchers could study further to verify if females are more sensitive to even small rises in testosterone levels, and if males are more sensitive to small rises in estrogen levels, and see how it influences personality type.

Testosterone levels vary really much during day, when you look at testosterone levels of women during the time when there is most testosterone, they have more of it than what men have during the time of their low testosterone. But if you look at times of highest testosterone(and look at statistical averages of highest testosterone times, as it varies quite alot between individuals also), men have around 3 times the testosterone than women do.
 

CuriousFeeling

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Testosterone levels vary really much during day, when you look at testosterone levels of women during the time when there is most testosterone, they have more of it than what men have during the time of their low testosterone. But if you look at times of highest testosterone(and look at statistical averages of highest testosterone times, as it varies quite alot between individuals also), men have around 3 times the testosterone than women do.

Hmmmmm... this is interesting! :) There appears to be a greater gradient with testosterone levels in men, greater fluctuations than what women experience with their testosterone levels, if I am interpreting this right. Likely to have a similar pattern with estrogen in women vs. estrogen in men.
 

Xenon

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Testosterone levels vary really much during day, when you look at testosterone levels of women during the time when there is most testosterone, they have more of it than what men have during the time of their low testosterone. But if you look at times of highest testosterone(and look at statistical averages of highest testosterone times, as it varies quite alot between individuals also), men have around 3 times the testosterone than women do.

That's not accurate at all. Where did you get that info?

Men average ten to twenty times as much testosterone as women do, and the ranges do not overlap. The levels do vary between individuals of each sex, and they do change somewhat throughout the day, but there is no overlap between the sexes at all, unless we're talking about people with medical issues.

Normal ranges are shown here: Medline Plus: Testosterone

Normal Results
Male: 300 -1,200 ng/dL
Female: 30 - 95 ng/dL
Note: ng/dL = nanograms per deciliter

The high end of the acceptable range for women is still less than a third of the low end of the acceptable range for men. Anyone testing outside these ranges would be evaluated for medical problems, regardless of the time of day.
 

Eric B

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On this thread: http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...cs/36880-types-neurological-binary-codes.html I developed an idea of type preference stemming from the temperament factors of expressiveness and responsiveness, which can be interpreted in terms of stimulatability. Like an introvert tends to be overstimulated by the external world, so thus turns within. An extravert tends to be understimulated, and thus turns outward. This shapes the orientation of the dominant function, as well as the E or I of the first letter of type, which is also apart of his Interaction Style, or social temperament.

This is then extended to cooperative/pragmatic, which would be expressiveness in the "conative" area of action and leadership. Cooperatives, sort of like introverts are overstimulatable, and thus limit their action to "what's right", while Pragmatics, sort of like extraverts, are understimulateable, and thus quick to do whatever works.

This also works for the other dimension (responsiveness) in both areas. Directives tend to be overstimulated by unsolicited interaction from others, while informatives are understimulatable and thus respond more to others. (And this is what shapes the "language" the Interaction Styles pick up and name the two poles of the factor after). Structure-focused is overstimulated by unsolicited control by others (and thus depend on their own structures), while motive-focused are understimulateable, and thus willing to 'work with people'; allowing others' agendas to shape their decisions.

Overall, Thinking tends to directing, structure and pragmatism, while Feeling tends to informing, motive, and cooperativeness. All T's and F's do not prefer all three of the respective poles.
Its just that if you prefer two out of the three, you will fall to the prevailing side.

TJ's and FP's are the "pure" types consistently preferring all three, and TP's and FJ's are 2/3 mixtures.

It's a wild idea, but tying these factors to "stimulatability" creates a possible link to neurology. If this is true, then that could be a neurological basis for our function preference.
 

Kasper

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Yes, one question that came to my mind was, putting aside sex drive and aggression, assuming T or F preference is caused by hormones, shouldn't those who receive synthesized injections of estrogen become F and those who receive injections of testosterone become T, afterwards?

Good question and one I don't have an answer for. To be honest, I'm not even completely convinced of the correlation between hormones and dichotomies. But I was willing to discuss the concept purely for entertainment sakes.

Bear in mind that trans-individuals get estrogen and testosterone shots/pills. There are several on TypeC. Perhaps if they're willing, they can discuss the impacts of their hormone shots/pills.

I did not have higher than expected levels of T (for females) running around my system before I started injecting it into my butt, which as Xenon shows is considerably lower than men. Nothing about my hormonal set up could explain my NTness.

NT is the aspect of my type that I could never question, that my preference for Thinking over Feeling is there was always clear, and strong, and anyone who knew me would be sure of that much too. Since starting hormone therapy nothing has changed about my aggressiveness or other emotional things, and nothing has changed in terms of my thinking preference, what has happened is that I am in synch with how I've always felt, and I cop less static for being a NT.

Amongst trans friends who are on hormones the same thing can be seen, some are naturally Fs, others Ts and the hormones their body produced pre-transition and the hormones circulating their system now have no effect based on my subjective view of them.

I believe we are either born with our MBTI type, or it is developed in the first few years of our lives, ergo both nature and nurture, but not hormonal.
 

Giggly

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^You came. Yay! :D Thanks for shedding light!
 

Xenon

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Amongst trans friends who are on hormones the same thing can be seen, some are naturally Fs, others Ts and the hormones their body produced pre-transition and the hormones circulating their system now have no effect based on my subjective view of them.

I believe we are either born with our MBTI type, or it is developed in the first few years of our lives, ergo both nature and nurture, but not hormonal.

Interesting. Yeah I'd think if sex hormones are involved at all (which I'm not convinced of) they're certainly not the dominant influence...given the great difference in testosterone levels between men and women, and the fact that Ts or NTs are not that overwhelmingly male. (I know males are the majority, but not overwhelmingly so).
 
G

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I was clearly an EXXJ when I was a kid.... bossing people around and being very animated while also strongly favoring Pi. :biggrin: Life experience has definitely softened it though. Not sure about the F or T though when I was younger. Some things leaned toward Fe and some things clearly leaned toward Te.
 

rav3n

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I did not have higher than expected levels of T (for females) running around my system before I started injecting it into my butt, which as Xenon shows is considerably lower than men. Nothing about my hormonal set up could explain my NTness.

NT is the aspect of my type that I could never question, that my preference for Thinking over Feeling is there was always clear, and strong, and anyone who knew me would be sure of that much too. Since starting hormone therapy nothing has changed about my aggressiveness or other emotional things, and nothing has changed in terms of my thinking preference, what has happened is that I am in synch with how I've always felt, and I cop less static for being a NT.

Amongst trans friends who are on hormones the same thing can be seen, some are naturally Fs, others Ts and the hormones their body produced pre-transition and the hormones circulating their system now have no effect based on my subjective view of them.

I believe we are either born with our MBTI type, or it is developed in the first few years of our lives, ergo both nature and nurture, but not hormonal.
Thanks for responding, Kasper. If anyone can confirm or deny the correlation between hormones and T/F indicators, it would be yourself and others who're transitioning. As a guess, you're probably receiving a much higher dosage and on a continuous schedule, than any of the study participants.
 

Rasofy

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[MENTION=10808]Jenaphor[/MENTION]
Hey. Couldn't find the wolves experiment, unfortunately. To be honest I didn't read that study, but someone once used the study to demonstrate something else. Problem is I don't remember where, why or when. Back in the days, I used to read some PUA forums and also some pheromone forums. In case someone is curious, phermones mostly work as a facilitator. There are many variations, each one with its purposes, but none of them are gonna make girls jump on your lap, you still gotta do your thing. Oh, and they are tricky as hell. :ninja:

Anyways, lemme post what I could find in my book ''Why him, Why her'', by Helen Fisher, about testosterone. I have the portuguese version, so it is possible that I made some translation mistakes. Keep in mind that I'm merely quoting the book, I don't have the means to prove the offered data.

Spatial skills
Keep in mind, however, that the body testosterone levels can be increased through puberty
or other experiences, thereby contributing to their spatial skills. For example, women find
their cars in parking lots with more ease at the time of menstruation, when estrogen levels
decline, allowing testosterone to be expressed.
The correlation between testosterone and spatial ability is not simple. An excess amount or
too little of this powerful chemical can harm your spatial skills. Moreover, their daily habits
and its environment always incluence. However, the link between testosterone and spatial skills
is strong.

Testosterone and Transgenders / humor
In adulthood, testosterone injections can also affect the individual's ability to concentrate,
as transgenders report. After three months of testosterone injections for a sex change operation,
from female to male, one person said he became ''more narrow-minded''and changed in terms of mental focus,
which went from wide to narrow. Maybe that's why the directors and tend to be thorough and detail-oriented.
They are often focusing on the parts of a system rather than the whole. Perhaps this concentration
also lead Directors to design and love puns and paradoxes. These strange shapes of humor juxtaposed
structurally disparate ideas.

Women and testosterone
Women who experienced high levels of testosterone in the womb are more likely to follow professions
in male-dominated areas and achieve positions of higher status. However, are less likely to marry,
and have fewer children. So why, in evolutionary perspective, they struggle to move forward? Perhaps nature
ambitious has evolved, in part, to help their biological relatives to survive, thus unconsciously
transmitting part of your own DNA.

Shortcomings associated with high testosterone (sounds a lot like a heavy Thinking type)
Individuals with high fetal testosterone levels also tend to be less able to recognize emotions and less
sensitive to the feelings of others. Just as those who suffer from mental blindness, they have a great
difficulty understanding the point of view, ideas or feelings of others. Just as those who suffer
of mental blindness, they have great difficulty understanding the point of view, ideas and feelings of others.
They also may lack empathy and become distant and impersonal, even cold.
 

BAJ

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I wondered about "low testosterone" about eight or ten years ago, but I went to the doctor. After testing it was reported that my testosterone level was normal.

Yet, I believe the doctor thought I was queer in denial because he said, "You know, you must be attracted for Viagra to work." Which I took to mean that he thought I was gay in denial.

(Side note: I'm also peeved because he marked the test as "elective" even if it was very important to me, so I had to pay.)

Anyway, there was a big question F or T, which I made another thread about recently :)

I think perhaps I was naturally F, but any signs of emotion were violently discouraged from the "stop crying" department, or "stop that crying or I'll give you something to cry about." So I was taught to repress it, as boys are not supposed to cry.

I think if someone said, "You must be T since your testosterone level is 20 times the normal population", then I'd still not believe it. I think I can use both Fi and Ti, but I'm not sure a hormone test will change the way I make decisions or change my perceptions of how I make decisions.

I make lots of decisions, I'm pretty sure that T is not the dominant force. If I'm talking to someone else, I have do a little work if I'm going to translate my gut decision into logic, almost like if I were trying to think of a way to explain in terms of a foreign language. Some things I can't explain at all...not satisfactorily.
 
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