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  1. #41
    From the Undertow CuriousFeeling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post

    Unfortunately they didn't focus on why, this information was brought to show how something else worked. I think males are more sensitive to estrogen, while females are more sensitive to testosterone, which in turn would mean that it would take much less testosterone levels to affect females and much less estrogen to affect males F/T preferences. So in the end F males still have higher testosterone levels than T females, and vice versa.
    This helps answer my question, thanks. It would be something that researchers could study further to verify if females are more sensitive to even small rises in testosterone levels, and if males are more sensitive to small rises in estrogen levels, and see how it influences personality type.
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  2. #42
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Genes and most likely epigenetics plays a role also.

    Twin studies has shown so much evidence on personality being genetic, that there is no doubt about that. But whats still bit controversial is how much environment has effect to core aspects of personality(like typology).

    And epigenetics is basically environmental factors activating and deactivating genes and it seems that there is individual differences on how easily genes get activated/deactivated by environment.

    Now you have to keep in mind that typology is basically differences on patterns of brain activity and stuff like more info flowing to visual cortex from other parts on cerebral cortex.

    Even tho if some gene that makes you T would deactivate, the connections between brain areas that make you T still remain strong. Naturally brains do shape even as adults(brain plasticity slows down tho the older you get), but the differences on brain activity between some types are HUGE and the whole brain is wired to work with these existing patterns.
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  3. #43
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousFeeling View Post
    This helps answer my question, thanks. It would be something that researchers could study further to verify if females are more sensitive to even small rises in testosterone levels, and if males are more sensitive to small rises in estrogen levels, and see how it influences personality type.
    Testosterone levels vary really much during day, when you look at testosterone levels of women during the time when there is most testosterone, they have more of it than what men have during the time of their low testosterone. But if you look at times of highest testosterone(and look at statistical averages of highest testosterone times, as it varies quite alot between individuals also), men have around 3 times the testosterone than women do.
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  4. #44
    From the Undertow CuriousFeeling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    Testosterone levels vary really much during day, when you look at testosterone levels of women during the time when there is most testosterone, they have more of it than what men have during the time of their low testosterone. But if you look at times of highest testosterone(and look at statistical averages of highest testosterone times, as it varies quite alot between individuals also), men have around 3 times the testosterone than women do.
    Hmmmmm... this is interesting! There appears to be a greater gradient with testosterone levels in men, greater fluctuations than what women experience with their testosterone levels, if I am interpreting this right. Likely to have a similar pattern with estrogen in women vs. estrogen in men.
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  5. #45
    (blankpages) Xenon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    Testosterone levels vary really much during day, when you look at testosterone levels of women during the time when there is most testosterone, they have more of it than what men have during the time of their low testosterone. But if you look at times of highest testosterone(and look at statistical averages of highest testosterone times, as it varies quite alot between individuals also), men have around 3 times the testosterone than women do.
    That's not accurate at all. Where did you get that info?

    Men average ten to twenty times as much testosterone as women do, and the ranges do not overlap. The levels do vary between individuals of each sex, and they do change somewhat throughout the day, but there is no overlap between the sexes at all, unless we're talking about people with medical issues.

    Normal ranges are shown here: Medline Plus: Testosterone

    Normal Results
    Male: 300 -1,200 ng/dL
    Female: 30 - 95 ng/dL
    Note: ng/dL = nanograms per deciliter

    The high end of the acceptable range for women is still less than a third of the low end of the acceptable range for men. Anyone testing outside these ranges would be evaluated for medical problems, regardless of the time of day.

  6. #46
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    On this thread: http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ary-codes.html I developed an idea of type preference stemming from the temperament factors of expressiveness and responsiveness, which can be interpreted in terms of stimulatability. Like an introvert tends to be overstimulated by the external world, so thus turns within. An extravert tends to be understimulated, and thus turns outward. This shapes the orientation of the dominant function, as well as the E or I of the first letter of type, which is also apart of his Interaction Style, or social temperament.

    This is then extended to cooperative/pragmatic, which would be expressiveness in the "conative" area of action and leadership. Cooperatives, sort of like introverts are overstimulatable, and thus limit their action to "what's right", while Pragmatics, sort of like extraverts, are understimulateable, and thus quick to do whatever works.

    This also works for the other dimension (responsiveness) in both areas. Directives tend to be overstimulated by unsolicited interaction from others, while informatives are understimulatable and thus respond more to others. (And this is what shapes the "language" the Interaction Styles pick up and name the two poles of the factor after). Structure-focused is overstimulated by unsolicited control by others (and thus depend on their own structures), while motive-focused are understimulateable, and thus willing to 'work with people'; allowing others' agendas to shape their decisions.

    Overall, Thinking tends to directing, structure and pragmatism, while Feeling tends to informing, motive, and cooperativeness. All T's and F's do not prefer all three of the respective poles.
    Its just that if you prefer two out of the three, you will fall to the prevailing side.

    TJ's and FP's are the "pure" types consistently preferring all three, and TP's and FJ's are 2/3 mixtures.

    It's a wild idea, but tying these factors to "stimulatability" creates a possible link to neurology. If this is true, then that could be a neurological basis for our function preference.
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  7. #47
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    Yes, one question that came to my mind was, putting aside sex drive and aggression, assuming T or F preference is caused by hormones, shouldn't those who receive synthesized injections of estrogen become F and those who receive injections of testosterone become T, afterwards?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    Good question and one I don't have an answer for. To be honest, I'm not even completely convinced of the correlation between hormones and dichotomies. But I was willing to discuss the concept purely for entertainment sakes.

    Bear in mind that trans-individuals get estrogen and testosterone shots/pills. There are several on TypeC. Perhaps if they're willing, they can discuss the impacts of their hormone shots/pills.
    I did not have higher than expected levels of T (for females) running around my system before I started injecting it into my butt, which as Xenon shows is considerably lower than men. Nothing about my hormonal set up could explain my NTness.

    NT is the aspect of my type that I could never question, that my preference for Thinking over Feeling is there was always clear, and strong, and anyone who knew me would be sure of that much too. Since starting hormone therapy nothing has changed about my aggressiveness or other emotional things, and nothing has changed in terms of my thinking preference, what has happened is that I am in synch with how I've always felt, and I cop less static for being a NT.

    Amongst trans friends who are on hormones the same thing can be seen, some are naturally Fs, others Ts and the hormones their body produced pre-transition and the hormones circulating their system now have no effect based on my subjective view of them.

    I believe we are either born with our MBTI type, or it is developed in the first few years of our lives, ergo both nature and nurture, but not hormonal.

  8. #48
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    ^You came. Yay! Thanks for shedding light!

  9. #49
    (blankpages) Xenon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasper View Post
    Amongst trans friends who are on hormones the same thing can be seen, some are naturally Fs, others Ts and the hormones their body produced pre-transition and the hormones circulating their system now have no effect based on my subjective view of them.

    I believe we are either born with our MBTI type, or it is developed in the first few years of our lives, ergo both nature and nurture, but not hormonal.
    Interesting. Yeah I'd think if sex hormones are involved at all (which I'm not convinced of) they're certainly not the dominant influence...given the great difference in testosterone levels between men and women, and the fact that Ts or NTs are not that overwhelmingly male. (I know males are the majority, but not overwhelmingly so).

  10. #50
    Glycerine
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    I was clearly an EXXJ when I was a kid.... bossing people around and being very animated while also strongly favoring Pi. Life experience has definitely softened it though. Not sure about the F or T though when I was younger. Some things leaned toward Fe and some things clearly leaned toward Te.

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