Ni and stubborness

[animenagai]

Hey guys, just wanted to catch your opinion. Ni as I understand it is a conclusive function. It takes multiple external stimuli and tries to form insightful, unifying concepts that link them together. An INFJ for example is known to observe a person's clothing, facial expressions, tone of voice etc. and make very penetrating insights about their personality and personal history. I really hope I got all this right, because my question depends on it.

I've noticed that my INTJ can be really stubborn and repetitive because of his Ni. He's an extraordinary man in my eyes; very smart and very logical. However he can sound like a broken record at times. For example, he's not a type 6 but he sees conspiracies everywhere. When something big happens and the reasons aren't logical he automatically thinks that there's some sort of under the table thing going on, when of course, that doesn't have to be the case. It's like he's too eager to form that same conclusion over and over again.

I think every function has a dark side and the dark side of Ni may just be stubbornness. No matter what the reason is, if your conclusion is not the best explanation, yet you are convinced that it is, you are being stubborn. What do you guys think? Am I making any sense to you?

 

[Oaky]

I would not believe so. The Ni sees certain perceptive viewpoint of a single entity however the judgement upon them falls towards the judging functions of either Fe/Te and to a lesser extent Fi/Ti.

 

[rav3n]

I would not believe so. The Ni sees certain perceptive viewpoint of a single entity however the judgement upon them falls towards the judging functions of either Fe/Te and to a lesser extent Fi/Ti.

Agreed. Ni synthesizes information gathered by the extroverted functions with existing internal information and informs, rather than concludes. It looks for patterns and symbols, creating existing and new possibilities.

 

[Usehername]

Healthy v. unhealthy Ni.

You have to have enough emotional distance from your understanding to be able to dissemble it and rebuild it. Not every Ni user has that emotional distance, some have invested their identities on being right in that specific worldview. I think this is partly why I hate INTJ forum--it seems like a lot of people have too much at stake there and need to be right or they're losing some of themselves.

Of course it varies from subject to subject and moment to moment in people's lives. I know I've had rough patches in my personal life where I had no margin of error with some of my theories--I had to be right because this was the only area where I felt like I had a win. I just went to a conference where an INTJ academic was obviously overly emotionally invested--everyone else shot him down but he dismissed their POVs without listening.

Healthy INTJ is great, though. It's very flexible and lets us adapt before anyone else knows that they need to do so.

 

[amazingdatagirl]

^nice comment [MENTION=315]Usehername[/MENTION]. Every type can be stubborn (or resistant to change) when the ego is heavily invested in the outcome.

 

[five]

Agreed. Ni synthesizes information gathered by the extroverted functions with existing internal information and informs, rather than concludes. It looks for patterns and symbols, creating existing and new possibilities.

Accurate.

Let me expand for the OP. I take in what I see around me (Se) and what I know of other situations experienced (Se), Ni also draws on information from the mental model of the world (Te).

Healthy v. unhealthy Ni.
You have to have enough emotional distance from your understanding to be able to dissemble it and rebuild it. Not every Ni user has that emotional distance, some have invested their identities on being right in that specific worldview. I think this is partly why I hate INTJ forum--it seems like a lot of people have too much at stake there and need to be right or they're losing some of themselves.

I'm not sure calling it "healthy" or unhealthy is a good analogy. I've seen that used a lot in this community. It leads to very dangerous conclusions. Eg that person is just a crackpot loon etc.

What I would say is more accurate is the "Why?". Why are you doing and saying what you are. I spend massive amount of time on this question in everything I do, so when someone questions my motives I am transparent and congruent.

For example I am here now on these forums because I want to change perceptions either mine or others so that there is congruence with reality.

If that proves too much work, which it may, I'll simply start a community based around a high level of truth as the foundation. Truth vs education are quite different concepts. I am bad at educating normally.

^nice comment [MENTION=315]Usehername[/MENTION]. Every type can be stubborn (or resistant to change) when the ego is heavily invested in the outcome.

Couldn't agree more.

Consider how stubborn someone would be if they mistyped themselves and then spent last 2 years "educating" others, only to find out they were not the type they thought. That is a massive investment in my opinion, and to admit that mistake is huge. I think many have fallen into that trap.

 

[highlander]

I'm not sure if Ni doms are more stubborn that other judging types. Maybe they are perceived to be so because they reach conclusions which are not always easy for them to explain. That is, they disagree with you or come up with a contrary point of view, but are not as capable as other types of explaining the rationale for their decision or conclusions. I think it is one of the key development points for an Ni dom (or at least INTJs anyway). Their success in the external world is in part shaped by their ability to develop an effective form of expression of what is going inside. Though they may be perceived as inflexible by others because of the way they interact, I think they are actually much more flexible than is perceived because they are always open to new data points which inform a conclusion. That conclusion can and will change if sufficient information is presented which contradicts their point of view. They are after all, dominant perceivers.

 

[skylights]

i think reluctance to move away from a conclusion based on Ni processing can seem especially like stubbornness to others because the reasoning is rarely apparent. whereas with Si or Te, or even Fi or Ti, you get a fairly clear sense of the why, but NJ opinions can seem to come out of nowhere, with no grounding in the past; little logic; little practicality; little ethical hardlining.

 

[INTP]

They have hard time seeing anything else than the facts that they decided to be real and the only ones that matter.
what comes to INTJs being rational and logical, i dont think the rational part is anywhere near the truth. They do try to be logical on their approach, but its not really rational to close your eyes from the world once you have made up your mind, just to protect your ego from getting hurt by you being wrong..
What they need to learn is develop their Fi, when undeveloped, it kinda makes Ni its slave and they build this big picture thing unconsciously based on what matters to them and what is worth most to them. If they care so much being right, then he can only see a world where he is right all the time and close his eyes from reality. If they care about being the best on WOW, they only see the wins and make excuses for the loses and for the fact why they arent famous in WOW. Etc etc

Sad but true INTJs seem to have especially hard time with this sort of psychological growing up..

Imo INFJs usually seem to be more rational, logical and mature more easily in psychological sense than INTJs

 

[violaine]

Sometimes, I just know. I know down to my bones. It feels wrong to ignore that. I actively cultivate perceiving the world this way when I'm confused as to what direction I should take in life. I have deeply regretted those instances when I haven't listened to my little (big) Ni voice. So if your INTJ is anything like me (though I'm INFJ), it actually feels wrong and like I'm being illogical and taking the long way around when I ignore the hunches. And I'm all the more stubborn about certain things for having ignored them in the past. I know it doesn't make for transparent decision making, but that's just how I work. It hampers my abilities if I worry about having to explain everything.

I am conscious of shielding others from the impact of my decisions as much as possible. It's probably why I live such a compartmentalized life. I'm aware that following your Ni around is a solitary path to tread. It's such a personal, private function. I will give in about certain things for the sake of someone I care about. Or if I think my decision is extremely impolite (though I'm starting to discount those kinds of considerations more and more.) I suspect having Fe may soften certain things that Te Fi conversely sharpens.