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  1. #1
    Ginkgo
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    Default Does the Unconscious Mind Even Exist?

    I'm going to make the distinction between the unconscious and the unconscious mind. The unconscious, or rather, that which is unconscious, is what we are unaware of. However, the unconscious mind is a reservoir of unconscious information and an essential part of our psyches.

    So does the latter even exist in your opinion? I don't doubt that there are symbols that pervade most if not all men's psyches; I also don't doubt that we are guided by them so often that we barely notice them if at all. Perhaps they work behind the scenes, but perhaps they spring from parts of our brain that deal very little with our peak consciousness.

    I'm not exactly sure where I'm going with this. I guess what I'm trying to ask is whether it's necessary to incorporate all of that which we don't know into something that is essentially accessible through deep introspection, intuition, etc, or whether that which we don't know may as well be an object of outward (more extraverted) discovery.

  2. #2
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Yes it does exist, people who are studuying any displine in psychology(including cognitive neuropsychology see it as something obvious.

    Cba to explain all the proofs, because you asking that is pretty much the same as if i would ask you that do dogs actually exist.

    The thing that people are disagreeing of is what exactly is this unconscious, not whether it exists or not.

    One thing that everyone agree about that is that all your memories that you arent thinking at the moment are unconscious, then when you think of them, they come to consciousness for a brief moment and go back to unconscious.

    I dont see whats even the point of asking if unconscious exists or not, because memories that arent in your consciousness at the moment still do exist, so unconscious is pretty self evident.
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    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Hmmmm.. I'm trying to reconcile your question with how I percieve my own self, and I'm not exactly sure what you are asking. I deal with my unconscious as that second thing you said, as an external object, as my twin. I can introspect parts of my subconscious by thinking of scenarios and observing my own reactions, but at that point aren't I really dealling with something as if it were an external object?

    You can do funky stuff with your mind by limited stimuli, changing your mind state, etc. Is this what you mean by accessing your subconscious directly?

    The thing is, at some level our mind always goes to a place where our consciousness, our focus cannot go. I used to play games with myself, trying to follow my thoughts and where they sprang from.. they just show up. You can link them to other thoughts, and you may be right, but the process itself is building one model to describe another model and not actually accessing that original model in a direct fashion. Basically.. I think that our conscious self is a very small pinnacle resting on a very large base of who we are.

  4. #4
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    Yes it does exist, people who are studuying any displine in psychology(including cognitive neuropsychology see it as something obvious.

    Cba to explain all the proofs, because you asking that is pretty much the same as if i would ask you that do dogs actually exist.

    The thing that people are disagreeing of is what exactly is this unconscious, not whether it exists or not.

    One thing that everyone agree about that is that all your memories that you arent thinking at the moment are unconscious, then when you think of them, they come to consciousness for a brief moment and go back to unconscious.

    I dont see whats even the point of asking if unconscious exists or not, because memories that arent in your consciousness at the moment still do exist, so unconscious is pretty self evident.
    Those memories are subject to personal experience and belong to the realm of the subconscious. As far as the unconscious is concerned, I'm referring to something that escapes personal experience and yet pervades through men's psyches.

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    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    Yes it does exist, people who are studuying any displine in psychology(including cognitive neuropsychology see it as something obvious.

    Cba to explain all the proofs, because you asking that is pretty much the same as if i would ask you that do dogs actually exist.

    The thing that people are disagreeing of is what exactly is this unconscious, not whether it exists or not.

    One thing that everyone agree about that is that all your memories that you arent thinking at the moment are unconscious, then when you think of them, they come to consciousness for a brief moment and go back to unconscious.

    I dont see whats even the point of asking if unconscious exists or not, because memories that arent in your consciousness at the moment still do exist, so unconscious is pretty self evident.
    Actually there's a total academic revolt against the idea. Again. Its like we're back in the days of the behaviourists and the unobservable is subjective anti-science and doesnt exist.

    Anyway, suggesting that its not an argument about whether or not the unconscious exists but what the unconscious is, I think, is a bit of a positive gloss. I dont like the movements against the unconscious or subconscious functions, to be its an ideological struggle, fed by sociobiology and medicalised neurology which I thought had taken itself into the background but which doesnt seem to be the case after all.

    Even when arguing about typifying or conceptualising the unconscious or mind I wouldnt suggest that earlier theories are without merit or seek to relegate them in status, they are useful for descriptive purposes.

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    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Does the Unconscious Mind Even Exist?
    It is probably there. I have been unconscious many times.

  8. #8

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    Unconscious mind? Does not exist. Mind = conscious, memories = unconscious

    But then there are dreams and the like. fuuuu

  9. #9
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    Those memories are subject to personal experience and belong to the realm of the subconscious. As far as the unconscious is concerned, I'm referring to something that escapes personal experience and yet pervades through men's psyches.
    Subconscious

    you do know that subconscious is a synonym for unconscious? its just that subconscious isnt preferred by freud(and freud being the father of psychoanalysis, the word subconscious isnt preferred by anyone, but is just some old relic). the reason why subconscious isnt preferred is that it simply means below the treshold of consciousness and freud used two words for this preconscious(easy to retrieve to consciousness) and unconscious(harder to retrieve to consciousness).

    From your description it seems like you are talking about collective unconscious and archetypes, not unconscious.

    Well what comes to collective unconscious, the physioloical parts could be seen as mid brain, amydala etc.
    For example there is a function of amygdala, that decides whether you eun or fight in dangerous situation(called fight or flight responce), the fight part could be seen as the hero archetype.

    So this kinda hints that there is some truth to archetypes, but its impossible to prove if they advance like jung said. from personal experience i have experienced my anima and it pretty mch went as jung stated, but how do i prove that anima or any archetypes do exist? i cant and no one else can, but if you learn about them and collective unconscious, you will notice that they are pretty self evident.

    Another example or proof of collective unconscious would be that some singing birds have their song coded in their dna. this is archetypal behavior. Some birds know automatically how to build a nest, again archetypal behavior. people falling in "love" at first sight, archetype again.

    Collective unconscious is one of jungs biggest things(naturally people on this forum might think its typology because most people here o.ly know about typology), along with complexes and is also pretty much seen as a fact by most people in the field of psychology(naturally some ignorant guy is always arguing against something).
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
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  10. #10

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    yeah I used to be confused when I heard subconscious or unconscious in the same context.

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