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  1. #21
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Cat View Post
    Don't listen to her sir. She's a bit evil. She tried to get me to type myself an INFP because of a stereotype when I didn't have knowledge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    I may have overstepped my bounds when I used the word faulty or imply that our tendencies are inherently dysfunctional. That's not what I was trying to give the impression of. If one's natural tendencies and instincts prevent them from either exploring themselves or exploring something else until they dig up better solutions, then I cannot honestly say that those tendencies act beneficially. To get a bit paradoxical, they may act beneficially when the person who is apprehended by them moves beyond them, maybe with some creativity to boot. Our prejudices and those judgments we make that are nearly unconscious to us do frequently serve to keep us alive, to help us avoid pain, and to maintain a level of common sense. However, at what point are they completely moot in a new time and a new day? More importantly, at what point do you let them guide you when you ought to be the one behind the wheel?

    Sure, our brains are smart. But we might be dumb enough not to exploit their potential.

    No, "force", is not what I'm trying to suggest. If anything, I am suggesting that we ought to try our hand at letting go.
    I don't know. It's hard to know. I think ultimately we are where we are. And maybe it's just okay to embrace that as long as it's not hurting us or anyone else. Until we move beyond it naturally.

    Isn't 'letting go' also giving in. Just in the other direction?
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    Life Path 11

    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  2. #22
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    I don't know. It's hard to know. I think ultimately we are where we are. And maybe it's just okay to embrace that as long as it's not hurting us or anyone else. Until we move beyond it naturally.
    I agree until the last sentence. Please define "naturally".

    Also, isn't 'letting go' also giving in. Just in the other direction?
    That doesn't mean you're forcing it upon yourself or anyone else.

  3. #23
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    I agree until the last sentence. Please define "naturally".
    Do I have to? Really?
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
    4w5 5w4 1w9
    ~Torah observant, Christ inspired~
    Life Path 11

    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  4. #24
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    Do I have to? Really?
    No. Not unless you want to continue the conversation.

  5. #25
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    No. Not unless you want to continue the conversation.
    My off-the-cuff definition on 'naturally' for you in this example: Letting something run it's course without any intervention to alter it.
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
    4w5 5w4 1w9
    ~Torah observant, Christ inspired~
    Life Path 11

    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  6. #26
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    My off-the-cuff definition on 'naturally' for you in this example: Letting something run it's course without any intervention to alter it.
    It's only natural for things to intervene.

  7. #27
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    It's only natural for things to intervene.
    Then that would be part of naturally. I thought you were speaking to intentionally moving past something....
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
    4w5 5w4 1w9
    ~Torah observant, Christ inspired~
    Life Path 11

    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  8. #28
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    Then that would be part of naturally. I thought you were speaking to intentionally moving past something....
    Yes, but if you make the choice, then use a process in which you're not intentionally forcing yourself, then would it matter to you?

    This blunt is all natural, intervening with this man's mouth.



    :P

    I better cut it out.

  9. #29
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    so...you're asking if i reflect inwardly everything that i perceive outwardly and an introvert projects everything they perceive internally...externally than we'd be more balanced? or have a clearer understanding of both modes of functioning? or that my extraversion would be more authentic and ones introversion would be more based in reality? oh shit...someone or something confused me somewhere...

    i'm thinking we all do do this...how else are you saying we do it? i express outwardly how i perceive the world both internally and externally...hmm...yes...i'm thinking you might be high too because you're looking through something so hard that it just disappeared or....something

    or...maybe i just need further explanation...
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  10. #30
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    so...you're asking if i reflect inwardly everything that i perceive outwardly and an introvert projects everything they perceive internally...externally than we'd be more balanced? or have a clearer understanding of both modes of functioning? or that my extraversion would be more authentic and ones introversion would be more based in reality? oh shit...someone or something confused me somewhere...

    i'm thinking we all do do this...how else are you saying we do it? i express outwardly how i perceive the world both internally and externally...hmm...yes...i'm thinking you might be high too because you're looking through something so hard that it just disappeared or....something

    or...maybe i just need further explanation...
    Here's a quote from the enneagram institute that may provide more insight:

    "To help you understand your type in more depth we have put on this site a sample of the material from our Enneagram books. By using the Enneagram as a guide to observing yourself from moment to moment and from day to day, you will have a method of personal development that will eventually be personally and spiritually transformative.
    The degree of awareness that you are able to bring to yourself as you "catch yourself in the act" and see your personality patterns at work is the degree to which your personal growth will occur. You actually do not have to "do" anything: just show up and become aware of yourself and your personality's habitual routines—without acting them out, of course."

    found indispensable for spiritual development.

    Seeking Truth
    If we are interested in personal growth, no element is more important than developing a love of truth. Seeking the truth means being curious about what is going on in ourselves and around us, not settling for the automatic answers our personality feeds us. If we observe ourselves, we will see that many of the stock explanations that we give ourselves for our behavior or for the actions of others are a form of resistance. They are a way of avoiding seeing more deeply into our current state. For example, one stock answer might be, "I am really angry at my father," but a deeper truth might be that I really love him and desperately want his love. Both levels of truth might be difficult for our personality to accept. It could take a long time to admit that we are angry with our father—and even longer to acknowledge the love beneath the anger.

    As we learn to accept what is real in the present moment, we are more able to accept whatever arises in us, because we know that it is not the whole of us. The truth encompasses both our fearful reactions and the greater resources of our soul. While our automatic reactions can derail our search for the truth, acknowledging their presence brings us closer to the truth. When we are willing to be with the whole truth—whatever it is—we have more inner resources available to deal with whatever we are facing.

    "Not Doing"
    The process of spiritual growth sometimes seems paradoxical because we speak of struggle and effort as well as of allowing, accepting, and letting go. The resolution of these apparent opposites lies in the concept of "not doing." Once we understand "not doing," we see that the real struggle is to relax into greater awareness so that we can see the manifestations of our personality. By neither acting on our automatic impulses nor by suppressing them, we begin to understand what is causing them to arise. Not acting on our impulses creates openings through which we can catch glimpses of what we are really up to. Those glimpses often become some of our most important personal growth lessons.

    Willing to be Open
    One of the primary functions of the personality is to separate us from various aspects of our own true nature. It causes us to limit our experience of ourselves by blocking from awareness any parts of ourselves that do not fit our self-image. By relaxing our bodies, quieting the chatter in our minds, and allowing our hearts to be more sensitive to our situation, we open up to the very inner qualities and resources, which can help us grow.

    Every moment has the possibility of delighting us, nurturing us, supporting us—if we are here to see it. Life is a tremendous gift, but most of us are missing it because we are watching a "mental movie" of our lives instead. As we learn to trust in the moment and to value awareness, we learn how to turn off the internal movie projector and start living a much more interesting life—the one we are actually starring in.

    Getting Proper Support
    The more support we have for our personal development, the easier our process will be. If we are living or working in dysfunctional environments, personal growth is not impossible, but it is more difficult. Most of us cannot leave our jobs or our families so easily, even if we are having difficulties with them, although we can seek out others who give us encouragement and act as witnesses to our growth. Beyond this, we can find groups, attend workshops, and put ourselves in situations that foster our real development. Getting support also entails structuring our days in ways that leave room for the things that nurture our souls.

    Learning from Everything
    Once we have involved ourselves in the process of personal growth, we understand that whatever is occurring in the present moment is what we need to deal with right now. And whatever is arising in our hearts or minds is the raw material that we can use for our growth. It is an extremely common tendency to flee from what we are actually facing into our imagination, romanticizing or dramatizing our situation, justifying ourselves, or even escaping into "spirituality." Staying with our real experience of ourselves and our situation will teach us exactly what we need to know for growth.

    Cultivating a Real Love of Self
    It has been said many times that we cannot love others if we do not love ourselves. But what does this mean? We usually think that it has something to do with having self-esteem or with giving ourselves emotional "goodies" to compensate for our feelings of deficiency. Perhaps, but one central aspect of a mature love of ourselves is caring about our growth sufficiently not to flee from the discomfort or pain of our actual condition. We must love ourselves enough not to abandon ourselves—and we abandon ourselves to the degree that we are not fully present to our own lives. When we are caught up in worry, fantasy, tension and anxiety, we become dissociated from our bodies and our feelings—and ultimately, from our true nature.

    True love of self also entails a profound acceptance of ourselves—returning to Presence and settling into ourselves as we actually are without attempting to change our experience. It is also aided by seeking the company of people who possess some degree of this quality themselves.

    Having a Practice
    Most spiritual teachings stress the importance of some kind of practice, be it meditation, prayer, yoga, relaxation, or movement. The important thing is to set aside some time each day to reestablish a deeper connection with our true nature. Regular practice (combined with participation in some kind of teaching or group) serves to remind us over and over again that we are hypnotized by our personality. Spiritual practice interferes with our deeply ingrained habits and gives us opportunities to wake up from our trance more often and for longer periods of time. Eventually, we understand that every time we engage in our practice we learn something new, and every time we neglect our practice we miss an opportunity to allow our lives to be transformed.

    A major obstacle to regular practice is the expectation of the personality that we attain specific personal growth results, and, ironically, this is especially true if we have made significant breakthroughs in our spiritual growth. The personality seizes on breakthroughs and wants to recreate them on demand. This is not possible because breakthroughs occur when we are completely open to the present moment, while anticipating a certain payoff distracts us from experiencing how we actually are. In this moment, a new gift or insight is available—although most likely not the one that was available last week. Furthermore, the personality uses our breakthroughs as justifications to stop practicing saying, "Great! You've had a breakthrough! Now you're 'fixed' and you don't need to do this anymore."
    Along with our regular daily practice, life presents us with many opportunities to see our personality in action and to allow our essential nature to come forth and transform our personality. But it is not enough merely to think about personal development or to talk about it or to read books about it. Procrastination is a great defense of the ego. The only time to use the tools of personal growth is now."

    http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/personalgrowth.asp

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