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  1. #41
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mujigay View Post
    But the thing is, how much can MBTI really aid in self-discovery? Sure, it might give you a couple insights into who you are, but at the end of the day, it's a caricature, and if you're seeking self-actualization or even just some insight into who you are as a human being, I don't think that canned profiles are the best thing to take to heart.

    Don't get me wrong, I think it can point people in the right direction to self-improvement or perhaps understanding the behavior of other people. But taking too seriously is more likely to confuse someone in search of their identity than help them.
    I didnt get you wrong, I myself am a critique of mbti so I am completly on your side.

    The question regarding a hurt in your sensibilities and mbti I have is, how much of the wisdom we (you and me) have today, do teenagers who deal with mbti for the first time have. I am convinced the intelligence quotient of teenage generations grows exponentionally from generation to generation but in the end they all share the same feeling in which they want to belong somewhere in society or want to find someone to belong to. Its always the same story and I am wondering how well mbti can answer that for future generations. So far mbti has a convincing logic which is for example especially appealing to young americans who show a strong sense for rationalism and lack of self assurance.

    Life is complex, humans doubly so
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  2. #42
    Intergalactic Badass mujigay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    I didnt get you wrong, I myself am a critique of mbti so I am completly on your side.

    The question regarding a hurt in your sensibilities and mbti I have is, how much of the wisdom we (you and me) have today, do teenagers who deal with mbti for the first time have. I am convinced the intelligence quotient of teenage generations grows exponentionally from generation to generation but in the end they all share the same feeling in which they want to belong somewhere in society or want to find someone to belong to. Its always the same story and I am wondering how well mbti can answer that for future generations. So far mbti has a convincing logic which is for example especially appealing to young americans who show a strong sense for rationalism and lack of self assurance.

    Life is complex, humans doubly so
    I realize it's not a good idea to use personal anecdote as an argument...but the thing is, I AM a teenager dealing with MBTI for the first time, so I really don't find that to be an excuse. But I suppose that you do have a point. For those looking for self-assurance, it might be a powerful thing.
    1w9 sx/sp
    A little song, a little dance, a little seltzer down your pants.

    All that is gold does not glitter
    Not all those who wander are lost

  3. #43
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mujigay View Post
    I realize it's not a good idea to use personal anecdote as an argument...but the thing is, I AM a teenager dealing with MBTI for the first time, so I really don't find that to be an excuse. But I suppose that you do have a point. For those looking for self-assurance, it might be a powerful thing.
    Thats maybe some life experience I can share with you. In Germany where I come from people's individuality is alwaqys overrated. We debate and care a lot for the weakest members of our society, who are most often children and totally overdo the caring for them. In America on the other hand individuality and personal development is hold highly in the society, yet they lack identification, orientation and often seek life meaning in the wrong symbols ( religion, sects, bombing iraque ). You'll find in all these cultures a very strong concentration on the individual, its not like in China where the boss takes the responsibility for his team. Actually tho thats often the problem that the society as such, the community of people is ignored and over-achievers are promoted by the media to be the best of the country. Over-achievers who did a lot for themselves but nothing for the society.

    I think especially you as a chinese guy would know a lot about the importance of keeping every element of your team in shape and that brings me back to my original inquiry: the wisdom we have, we have. But not everybody does as well. But I think you got that already.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  4. #44
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Cat View Post
    It hurts my sensibilities.
    It does not need to. We do not need to play orthodoxy all the time. If I remember correctly, Xander said we have 64 types. He said something of the number for sure, and it was not 16. Let us see .. you are INXP .. then your dearest and nearest types would be INTP, XNXP, INFP, and IXXP? What about INXX? We should need multiple maps..

    There is the problem of accomodation. If you remove one letter vertical and horizontal, you remove two letters crosswise. Flat surface, you see. Maps are always tricky. And they are always an accomodation, no more.

    Of course, this problem is removed if we have only 16 .. but we should not let accomodation rule our thinking.

    Do we have 16 types then? Of course not; it only fits the flat surface. We have more than two dimensions here.

    The 16 is a 4-letter system and does not allow variables. Neat, but incorrect.
    The 64 allows more variables. Like 16, it is still a cut. Less incorrect.

    2 X 4 = 8

    we have 9 X 9

    h & v: one removed; cross-over: two removed, etc

    676
    787
    676

    IXTP INTP XNTP
    IXXP INXP XNXP
    IXFP INFP XNFP

    012343210
    123454321
    234565432
    345676543
    456787654
    345676543
    234565432
    123454321
    012343210


    81; 81 - 17

    INXP XNXP ENXP EXXP ESXP XSXP ISXP IXXP INXP
    INFP XNFP ENFP EXFP ESFP XSFP ISFP IXFP INFP
    INFX XNFX ENFX EXFX ESFX XFXF ISFX IXFX INFX
    INFJ XNFJ ENFJ EXFJ ESFJ XSFJ ISFJ IXFJ INFJ
    INXJ XNXJ ENXJ EXXJ ESXJ XSXJ ISXJ IXXJ INXJ
    INTJ XNTJ ENTJ EXTJ ESTJ XSTJ ISTJ IXTJ INTJ
    INTX XNTX ENTX EXTX ESTX XSTX ISTX IXTX INTX
    INTP XNTP ENTP EXTP ESTP XSTP ISTP IXTP INTP
    INXP XNXP ENXP EXXP ESXP XSXP ISXP IXXP INXP

  5. #45
    Senior Member Mr. Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    It does not need to. We do not need to play orthodoxy all the time. If I remember correctly, Xander said we have 64 types. He said something of the number for sure, and it was not 16. Let us see .. you are INXP .. then your dearest and nearest types would be INTP, XNXP, INFP, and IXXP? What about INXX? We should need multiple maps..

    There is the problem of accomodation. I you remove one letter vertical and horizontal, you remove two letters crosswise. Flat surface, you see. Maps are always tricky. And they are always an accomodation, no more.

    Of course, this problem is removed if we have only 16 .. but we should not let accomodation rule our thinking.

    Do we have 16 types then? Of course not; it only fits the flat surface. We have more than two dimensions here.

    The 16 is a 4-letter system and does not allow variables. Neat, but incorrect.
    The 64 allows more variables. Like 16, it is still a cut. Less incorrect.

    2 X 4 = 8

    we have 9 X 9

    h & v: one removed; cross-over: two removed, etc

    676
    787
    676

    IXTP INTP XNTP
    IXXP INXP XNXP
    IXFP INFP XNFP

    012343210
    123454321
    234565432
    345676543
    456787654
    345676543
    234565432
    123454321
    012343210


    81; 81 - 17

    INXP XNXP ENXP EXXP ESXP XSXP ISXP IXXP INXP
    INFP XNFP ENFP EXFP ESFP XSFP ISFP IXFP INFP
    INFX XNFX ENFX EXFX ESFX XFXF ISFX IXFX INFX
    INFJ XNFJ ENFJ EXFJ ESFJ XSFJ ISFJ IXFJ INFJ
    INXJ XNXJ ENXJ EXXJ ESXJ XSXJ ISXJ IXXJ INXJ
    INTJ XNTJ ENTJ EXTJ ESTJ XSTJ ISTJ IXTJ INTJ
    INTX XNTX ENTX EXTX ESTX XSTX ISTX IXTX INTX
    INTP XNTP ENTP EXTP ESTP XSTP ISTP IXTP INTP
    INXP XNXP ENXP EXXP ESXP XSXP ISXP IXXP INXP
    Then with all those variations how many function orders could be used for every one of those variations.

    But then this sounds like a devils work. There are 351 letters in there. 5+1=6. 3 sets of 6s is 666.
    you cant manipulate me so easily devil person.

  6. #46
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    The flaw is thinking you aren't already manipulated.

  7. #47
    Senior Member Mr. Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecTcelfeR View Post
    The flaw is thinking you aren't already manipulated.
    what if I manipulated you to think that I think I wasnt being manipulated?

  8. #48
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Cat View Post
    what if I manipulated you to think that I think I wasnt being manipulated?
    I've already come to the realization that the only way to avoid it is to accept it. /one of us.

    You can only fight something that doesn't exist for so long before you become it.... Hahaha... That makes no sense, but I enjoy it.

    Oh, and I'd imagine if you are already able to pretend to be manipulated by the system perfectly then the tactic worked.

  9. #49
    Senior Member Mr. Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecTcelfeR View Post
    I've already come to the realization that the only way to avoid it is to accept it. /one of us.

    You can only fight something that doesn't exist for so long before you become it.... Hahaha... That makes no sense, but I enjoy it.

    Oh, and I'd imagine if you are already able to pretend to be manipulated by the system perfectly then the tactic worked.
    Sounds like something out of a cheesy wise old man type movie.

  10. #50
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Cat View Post
    Then with all those variations how many function orders could be used for every one of those variations.

    But then this sounds like a devils work. There are 351 letters in there. 5+1=6. 3 sets of 6s is 666.
    you cant manipulate me so easily devil person.
    64/2 = 32 function orders. One for two variations.

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