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  1. #1
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Default Jungian Function Webpage

    http://player2000gi.host-ed.net/jungian_functions.htm

    This is pretty good for an older page. But this part does concern me a bit:
    "Introverted Thinker - Enjoy coming to new understandings, problem-solving and logic. Independent, skeptical and critical. Appear self-absorbed while they use step-by-step logic to discover the principles and connections that underlie the overall picture."

    Skeptical, maybe. Just like I (an Intuitive) am skeptical about this quote. But this idea, which I've seen before, doesn't tell the whole story. Because in my vast experience, when it comes to real life situations, Intuitives tend to be more gullible and Sensors more skeptical.

    A Sensor I've known for a few years (he scored 100% on the MBTI Sensing scale) is a notorious skeptic. But he enjoys pulling the wool over the eyes of our Intuitive friend. I've done that myself. I told the Sensor how gullible our friend is for believing whatever it was I said to him, and he replied, "So what else is new?"

    I realize these are only two examples, but I could go on to bring in more and more examples of Sensor skepticism and Intuitive gullibility involving various people I've known. Intuitionist skepticism only involves the intellectual realm, and probably just the introverted thinking type as these pages state.

    These skeptical Sensors would no doubt score high on the Sentinel ANSIR scale, and the statistics hint that Sentinel is the most common type, just as MBTI Sensing is far more common than Intuition.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  2. #2
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Both S and T are often said to deal iin "facts". So that might be what would make either seem more "skeptical" than their opposites. (Also why S and T together are always "directive").
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    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

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  3. #3
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Some good stuff on the page, but also some weird claims.

    Also its not jungian, its MBTI.

    Being sceptical isnt a type or function thing. introverted T just easily leads to person being sceptical, other types are able to be sceptical in this general way this refers to. but this Ti sceptisism isnt about being sceptical so much as people usually uses the word(mistrusting og others), but it comes from taking irrelevant out of the external world using with principle of logic and reason, in other words introverting with T. so when a time comes when you notice that the external world doesent match logic, you ask yourself why. now when it comes to INTP and ISTP, these two types try to find the answer differently.

    ISTP tries to see 'what is' in the external world and introvert with N, taking out the(what seems to be) impossible 'what if's. now when you see some of these 'what if's possible, it means that you also see why the logic didnt match before. now ofc because we as humans arent some all knowing creatures, there might be some mistakes in the process and might see some 'what if' as possible and possibly the truth. but then again ISTP shouldnt trust too much of his intuitions, so he will be sceptical towards these 'what if's. now when someone sees ISTP being hesitant over his intuitions that match the truth, the ISTP seems sceptical to him. but its not sceptism as distrust on others, it simply that it does not compute and ISTP is sceptical of his own thoughts over the object, not sceptical of the object itself.

    INTPs on the other hand put the what if's to the external world and is sceptical of whether the inner object of 'what is' is true or false. has he done the introverting according to 'what is' correctly or missed out something that could explain the error in reasoning, would be the area of hesitation, especially when you intuit what might be to the external world.

    This cycle for Ti doms are; from inside to outside(Fe Pe) to inside(Ti Pi).

    Being sceptical as distrusting is not something type related imo, its just about lack of trust in others not trying to deceive you
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
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  4. #4
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Both S and T are often said to deal iin "facts". So that might be what would make either seem more "skeptical" than their opposites. (Also why S and T together are always "directive").
    And in my experience, S and F together create people who are too nice to call out someone's bullshit. But that doesn't mean they aren't thinking it. I don't know what you mean by 'directive' S and T.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  5. #5
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    but it comes from taking irrelevant out of the external world using with principle of logic and reason, in other words introverting with T.
    I can't make heads or tails out of that, and some other stuff, but I'll take your word for it that you don't believe the type of skepticism involving trust issues is type related.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  6. #6
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Imo the most simplest way you can think of functions and how they work is

    E functions put meaning onto external object, naturally this comes from inside, so its from inside to outside. extraversion builds a external object out of what it seems to be.

    I functions take in what makes sense, so its taking in from outside, naturally not all is taking in, the irrelevant is left out. introverted functions take irrelevant out of this external object and internalize it

    This putting meaning onto external object and taking out of it is done according to 4 functions.

    T does this according to principle of reason and logic.
    F does this according to principle of worth.
    S does this by principle of fact.
    and N according to principle of possibility over time.

    As jung explained the functions, S tells you what is, T tells you what it is, F tells you what it is worth and N tells you where did it come from and where is it going. and this it being the object being shaped by inteoverting and extraverting it using those principles i explained.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
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  7. #7
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    And in my experience, S and F together create people who are too nice to call out someone's bullshit. But that doesn't mean they aren't thinking it. I don't know what you mean by 'directive' S and T.
    Directive is the other factor of the Interaction Styles besides I or E. (It is roughly defined as communicating in the form of direction rather than information, but it goes beyond that, in determining a person's responsiveness to others in general). Both ST and NJ are directive. When I was first figuring out all of this stuff, it figured why NJ (Ni preferrers) would be directive (Where Ne preferrers are naturally a bit "lighter" in approach), so I had to determine why S and T together would be. I figured it had to do with the "factual" nature of both S and T.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

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  8. #8
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    And in my experience, S and F together create people who are too nice to call out someone's bullshit. But that doesn't mean they aren't thinking it. I don't know what you mean by 'directive' S and T.
    I thought ESFPs were some of the "sassiest", almost charmingly insulting people there are, at times. Like, they can be direct and rub your face in something, but be kind of smooth about it where it's not totally alienating. I believe Ann Richards, the old governor of Texas, is a good example of one. Not quite the charming abrasiveness of some ESTPs, but not pushovers either. Se in the dominant position would not be afraid of being put on the spot or calling out something that does need to be. They like it that way.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Directive is the other factor of the Interaction Styles besides I or E. (It is roughly defined as communicating in the form of direction rather than information, but it goes beyond that, in determining a person's responsiveness to others in general). Both ST and NJ are directive. When I was first figuring out all of this stuff, it figured why NJ (Ni preferrers) would be directive (Where Ne preferrers are naturally a bit "lighter" in approach), so I had to determine why S and T together would be. I figured it had to do with the "factual" nature of both S and T.
    That just sounds like a way of distinguishing J and P.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  10. #10
    Tier 1 Member LunaLuminosity's Avatar
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    Just because sensors perhaps tend to be more skeptical doesn't mean that skeptical can't also be associated with introverted thinking. I wouldn't exactly associate intuition with gullibility, it's just that intuitors tend to not dismiss things so fast that have no immediate backing in reality (where sensing is more like "give me the straight-up proof now"), a suspension of disbelief rather than just believing anything.

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