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  1. #11
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunaLuminosity View Post
    Just because sensors perhaps tend to be more skeptical doesn't mean that skeptical can't also be associated with introverted thinking. I wouldn't exactly associate intuition with gullibility, it's just that intuitors tend to not dismiss things so fast that have no immediate backing in reality (where sensing is more like "give me the straight-up proof now"), a suspension of disbelief rather than just believing anything.
    You could say that too.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  2. #12
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    Imo the most simplest way you can think of functions and how they work is

    E functions put meaning onto external object, naturally this comes from inside, so its from inside to outside. extraversion builds a external object out of what it seems to be.

    I functions take in what makes sense, so its taking in from outside, naturally not all is taking in, the irrelevant is left out. introverted functions take irrelevant out of this external object and internalize it

    This putting meaning onto external object and taking out of it is done according to 4 functions.

    T does this according to principle of reason and logic.
    F does this according to principle of worth.
    S does this by principle of fact.
    and N according to principle of possibility over time.

    As jung explained the functions, S tells you what is, T tells you what it is, F tells you what it is worth and N tells you where did it come from and where is it going. and this it being the object being shaped by inteoverting and extraverting it using those principles i explained.
    Which is all cognitive styles yet somehow influences and even shapes personality.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  3. #13
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    Which is all cognitive styles yet somehow influences and even shapes personality.
    Yep, everyone uses all 4 functions T S N F, but INTJ and INTP for example use T in opposite orientation and lower functions are more unconscious, because they oppose the functions ego sees as being self. and by differentiating functions, you take these functions that ego tries to reject and make the ego see them as part of self.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
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  4. #14
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    This stuff has nothing to do with Jung, it's the usual MBTI semi-nonsense that mixes up all the introverted functions.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  5. #15
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I thought ESFPs were some of the "sassiest", almost charmingly insulting people there are, at times. Like, they can be direct and rub your face in something, but be kind of smooth about it where it's not totally alienating. I believe Ann Richards, the old governor of Texas, is a good example of one. Not quite the charming abrasiveness of some ESTPs, but not pushovers either. Se in the dominant position would not be afraid of being put on the spot or calling out something that does need to be. They like it that way.
    I wouldn't say that SF's are [always] "too nice" to attack or call someone out. SFJ's definitely do it too.

    SF is simply informative or more "responsive", meaning that they will tend to try to be nicer with people, but there are always situations that can make them critical. ESFP's might even behave as you mention, to go along with a crowd. Then, when the crowd is not around, they will be their naturally friendlier selves.
    I think of Amanda on Ugly Betty, who was mean to Betty, mainly because of her following Wilhemina. When relating to her in other contexts, whe was much nicer. Responsiveness is also about how much one holds onto emotions, such as anger. So you can get angry and critical, but the informative will be less likely to hold onto it.
    This would also correspond to the other side of the Se "in the moment" approach, especially when working with Feeling rather than Thinking. (ESTP is on the "directive" side).

    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    That just sounds like a way of distinguishing J and P.
    Yes, for N's, directive/informative is connected with J/P. J/P pretty much do parallel T/F in "responsiveness". For S's, J/P is connected with something called "structure vs motive", which is another kind of reponsiveness or people/task focus.
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  6. #16
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    Yep, everyone uses all 4 functions T S N F, but INTJ and INTP for example use T in opposite orientation and lower functions are more unconscious, because they oppose the functions ego sees as being self. and by differentiating functions, you take these functions that ego tries to reject and make the ego see them as part of self.
    In theory, the intellect may recognize the lower, more unconscious functions as part of the self. But the ego may have something very different to say about this.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  7. #17
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post

    Yes, for N's, directive/informative is connected with J/P. J/P pretty much do parallel T/F in "responsiveness". For S's, J/P is connected with something called "structure vs motive", which is another kind of reponsiveness or people/task focus.
    Do you have a webpage that discusses this?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  8. #18
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    In theory, the intellect may recognize the lower, more unconscious functions as part of the self. But the ego may have something very different to say about this.
    Yep, recognition is the first part, but before the ego sees the functions as self also, you dont have conscious control over them and they may be guiding your focus by projections. naturally you can suspect something being a projection etc rationalization even if ego doesent see the function as part of self, but that a whole another thing than using the lower functions consciously like you normally use dom or aux functions
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  9. #19
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    Yep, recognition is the first part, but before the ego sees the functions as self also, you dont have conscious control over them and they may be guiding your focus by projections. naturally you can suspect something being a projection etc rationalization even if ego doesent see the function as part of self, but that a whole another thing than using the lower functions consciously like you normally use dom or aux functions
    Which repressed function is the source of, let's say, the displacement defense mechanism?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  10. #20
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    Which repressed function is the source of, let's say, the displacement defense mechanism?
    Ego sees them as opposites, F is opposite of T, S is opposite of N and I is opposite of E. for example INTP would be able to easily see T and N in the ego even tho they are I/E opposites, because they arent opposite judgments, but J and P, so ego doesent try to repress these, instead it represses opposite judgment, Fe. the reason third is not as repressed by ego than fourth, is that aux doesent have so big of a role in ego(ego sees it less of self than dom), so ego doesent try to repress third as much. and because dom(Ti) is so much of ego 'self' it represses its opposite judgment(Fe) to much greater degree.

    Bit naturally this isnt all this simple. because third also works as filter for fourth(like dom to aux), you need to also come conscious of fourth in order to filter it properly. if you dont know what you are filtering, you wont be able to filter it properly. this is why one jungian analyst wrote an essay about third being in the shadow of fourth to journal of analytical psychology.

    This sort of mechanisms on the mind(according to jung) extend even out of typology. for example this reconciling third that emerges the union of the opposites(in typology of dom/inferior) can be seen as transference(sort of projection of patients unconscious towards analyst) in therapy sessions, where the opposites would be the patient and analyst. by analyzing this transference will tell about the patients unconscious and this can help the patient to realize more about the self(which is the goal in analytical psychology)
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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