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Thread: Fe Fakeness

  1. #61
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post

    Have you considered that this is perhaps because you suck at Te?
    I hadn't really, no. And you still find it necessary to be insulting to make your point, but I guess at least I understand why a little better, now. Carry on.
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  2. #62
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    If you're that oppressed, Z, I think you just should get in a random fight somewhere.

    Leave the poor TypoC community alone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    I hadn't really, no. And you still find it necessary to be insulting to make your point, but I guess at least I understand why a little better, now. Carry on.
    Thanks for biting.

    See, I say "have you considered it's because you suck at Fe", and you take that as me insulting you.

    But, to me, that's just stating a very likely fact -- we usually suck at the 7th and 8th functions!

    I can't tell you how many times I've said on this forum and irl that I suck at Fe and Si.

    So do you think I'm insulting myself when I do this?

    I just think I'm being honest.

    To myself. And to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    If you're that oppressed, Z, I think you just should get in a random fight somewhere.

    Leave the poor TypoC community alone.


    Look, I don't go around real life complaining about this shit.

    But if we're having an honest discussion about it, I'm gunna bring up the truth.

    And the truth is that we constantly have to deal with bullshit niceties in everyday life.

    And they are not something I'm particular good at, and they do sincerely leave a bad taste in my mouth.

    And I know there are other people who don't really care about them either, but the Fe users certainly do, so their needs, and the fact that I must appeal to those needs, does in fact affect my everyday life. Just thinking about it is making me cringe, knowing that the next time I see my (unhealthy) ESTP neighbor, I'm gunna have to sit there and nod and act like I care about him feeling the need to tell me "the greatest story ever" for the 3rd time this week...

  4. #64

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    A disgruntled troll in a Fi/Fe thread. Imagine that. Should we feign surprise or break out the Acme Troll Feed Econosize?
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

  5. #65
    Senior Member redcheerio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    No, that's not my picture of all Fe-users.

    In fact, I just repped redcheerio about how NTPs (and the same even holds true for some [although, fewer] NFJs, from my experience) can manifest their Fe in highly anti-social ways. I believe Anti-social Personality Disorder is most highly correlated with ENTPs, in fact. But, yeah, that's a whole nother problem I have with Fe (I have an ESTP neighbor who vacillates between this shallow group moralizing and totally disgusting anti-social behavior -- he will literally flip it on and off and back to on within one conversation, like the flip of a switch).
    I can relate to an ENTP going anti-social. I'm not like that, but I can think of times when I was soooo fed up with unhealthy ESFJs punishing me in nasty passive aggressive ways for not catering to their sensitive Fe dom ways.

    But I don't think it's healthy to generalize about all ESFJs or all Fe users that way, though. Fe can actually be really considerate of others, it isn't always about forcing others to conform to those niceties.

    To me, it seems more productive to use a little Fe to understand where others are coming from, than to take your approach of shitting on everyone you see as "wrong".

    What if someone took the time and energy (and it would take a shitload of time and energy, as you are very determined and you write a lot) to prove you wrong about something? If they ended up being right, would you acknowledge it? Would you appreciate being shit on for it and made to look like a fuckhead? Probably not.

    Burying a pill in a pile of shit does not make it easier to swallow.

  6. #66
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by five View Post
    Also I used to be uncomfortable with this because I thought it violated my Fi principle of no-deception. But actually it's not deceptive at all, it's more like.. translating.
    !!! Exactly! You're learning a new language -- the language that the largest swath of the population speaks. The language that people won't hear as insulting and douchey.

    I usually only unveil that style of bluntness with friends -- or with people who are that blunt to me, first, and who I know can take what they give. But the majority of the time, I find middle ground between being nice and being honest -- i.e. cushioning my honesty with Fe-styled backpedaling, complimenting, etc. Like Zarathustra said, Te trying to be Fe.
    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Back to the very simple PB rule: Fe and Te always think they are right unless proven otherwise.
    Exactly!!
    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    Would it make any difference if INTJs (generalizing here) considered that maybe this approach puts people's back up and is thus counter-productive as far as having meaningful dialogue and getting closer to the truth?
    This is exactly why I restrain my Te, the way I do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Yes, which is why, as Nicodemus pointed to in an earlier post, in real life, when things have real consequences, we don't use the same exact same approach as we would on an internet forum.

    We have to sacrifice our authenticity every single day to play by your Fe rules.

    It's kind of refreshing to let go of the bullshit and niceties when you're on here.

    On here, you can just say it how it really is.
    I find this very interesting, because based on the (few) arguments I've had on the forum, the consequences are just the same as in real life. Friendships are threatened, good and bad reputations are established.
    Have you considered that this is perhaps because you suck at Te?

    Your statement here seems to make absolutely no mention of the truth or falsity of either position.
    By that logic, I suck at Te too. And I don't, so the answer is no.

    Te does not always have to be pure. Te is about making things right in the best and most efficient way possible. Sometimes toning down the rhetoric is simply more effective -- especially if you care a lot about being liked, as I do.

    For the record: I relate to your resentment of having to deal with niceties in everyday life. But I guess I see it as a necessary evil -- because some of my Fi values are concurrent with Fe needs (and enneagram 1w2).
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  7. #67
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Friendships are threatened, good and bad reputations are established.
    Online friends either know how to take it or are treated differently. Bad reputations outside of friendships are irrelevant.

  8. #68
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Online friends either know how to take it or are treated differently. Bad reputations outside of friendships are irrelevant.
    My general philosophy requires that I disagree with this. I see the world -- with "the world" including the forum -- as consisting of people who I would like to interact with, regardless of whether I'm friends with them or not. You can have fantastic conversations with people you aren't friends with, as long as they don't have a pre-established notion of you as being someone not worth talking to. Which is why I disagree with the bolded; Being universally disliked except for by a few friends would just not cut it for me.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
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  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by redcheerio View Post
    But I don't think it's healthy to generalize about all ESFJs or all Fe users that way, though. Fe can actually be really considerate of others, it isn't always about forcing others to conform to those niceties.
    Most the ESFJs I know conform pretty well to this stereotype...

    Quote Originally Posted by redcheerio View Post
    To me, it seems more productive to use a little Fe to understand where others are coming from, than to take your approach of shitting on everyone you see as "wrong".
    Hmm...

    I wonder if this correlates with your having tertiary Fe and my having tertiary Fi...

    Hmmm...

    Quote Originally Posted by redcheerio View Post
    What if someone took the time and energy (and it would take a shitload of time and energy, as you are very determined and you write a lot) to prove you wrong about something?
    Well, to be honest, it would likely never happen.

    I once gave a member on here a piece of advice via pm: don't start fights that you don't already know you've won.

    I don't get into arguments about topics I don't understand, and I always keep my mind open to acknowledge the value of someone else's (true) position.

    Quote Originally Posted by redcheerio View Post
    If they ended up being right, would you acknowledge it?
    If it did happen, yes.

    I already said this to @PeaceBaby above.

    Quote Originally Posted by redcheerio View Post
    Would you appreciate being shit on for it and made to look like a fuckhead?
    I wouldn't go around making truth claims that I didn't know for a fact.

    I would qualify my statements properly, and give way where my interlocutor's argument was correct.

    Under these circumstances, if the person was acting like a dick, they would likely not be correct in the first place.

    And so, if that were to be the case, I would fight them tooth and nail, and eventually annihilate their position.

    You could see the argument between me @simulatedworld in the astrology thread.

    Oh, wait, a mod erroneously thread-split it out of there.

    How could I forget...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Online friends either know how to take it or are treated differently. Bad reputations outside of friendships are irrelevant.
    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    My general philosophy requires that I disagree with this.
    Well, Nicodemus and I stand on the same side.

    I don't know you particularly well, but are you sure you're not an ESFJ?

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