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Thread: Fe Fakeness

  1. #651
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by five View Post
    Correspondence theory of truth is exactly how I see truth.
    I am not surprised. That is the standard.

    Quote Originally Posted by five View Post
    That said when I do go into unknown territories even if what I'm saying makes sense, others do have a hard time understanding me, because of my lack of terminology or "way things are done" Si. That however does not change the fundamental objective truth of what I was saying, regardless of how eloquently or crudely it was put.

    It is possible to have a truth that or insight no-one else has had of course, but be unable to express it.

    I do see I was out of my depth in some ways, especially with regards to the language. Ni is like that. It doesn't have a common dictionary. I appreciate the help.
    I always thought Ni-Te would seek to express the idea as efficiently as possible without much background noise: to put it in a nutshell, as the nice saying goes.

    Quote Originally Posted by five View Post
    What are other opinions on truth? Is there a divide? etc
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth

    Quote Originally Posted by five View Post
    What is your own view on truth? What position do you take?
    I advocate a pragmatic theory of truth that, while acknowledging that 'the world' (the thing in itself or whatever you want to call it) is a certain way, holds as true those statements which are most reliable, those which, in other words, we consider sufficient to base our decisions on. The words 'true' and 'truth', therefore, have two meanings: one that correlates to the world as it is and may forever be inaccessible, and one that correlates to the statements about it that have proven reliable.

    Reliability, eventually, is achieved through a loose sense of correspondence (there are many ways to describe the world) and coherence (we try not to, but we often do hold contradicting beliefs).

    Quote Originally Posted by five View Post
    Also your response would seem to indicate that you gained no insights that were useful or interesting to you from my posts as you didn't indicate this.

    Is that true or accurate reflection? I'm asking not because I want emotional "yay"s, but because I'm curious so I can recalibrate my output in future.
    Yes, that is true.

  2. #652
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    five, what do you intend by showing your chart? What does that prove?
    Just add's additional credibility.

    Anyone can say they've spent years doing typing IRL. I really have. Hence you know that the username "five" can be trusted on that point.

    More points that keep concurring build trust and reputation.

    That is important for ensuring more efficient communication down the line.

    Actions vs words. I actually heard someone on hear calling Keirsey an "idiot" once, well they are just plain arrogant. Put it another way does the smart MBA grad who graduated cum laude know more about business than the dropout Steve Jobs?

  3. #653
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by five View Post
    Just add's additional credibility.
    ... and drollness.

    Quote Originally Posted by five View Post
    Anyone can say they've spent years doing typing IRL. I really have. Hence you know that the username "five" can be trusted on that point.
    Well, Ed Wood shot films for years - in real life, too.

  4. #654
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by five View Post
    Just add's additional credibility.

    Anyone can say they've spent years doing typing IRL. I really have. Hence you know that the username "five" can be trusted on that point.

    More points that keep concurring build trust and reputation.

    That is important for ensuring more efficient communication down the line.
    It doesn't work because there is not a way to tell whether you're doing it right. I can see this is very important to you so I want make it clear to you that showing your chart does not help you with credibility. That is because there is no way to tell whether your assessments were correct or not, since we don't know the people. It's just a chart with people's names under the headings. It demonstrates that you are thinking about this subject, but there's no way to know if your thinking is any good. You could have typed all the people wrong -- there's no way to tell.

  5. #655
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Reliability, eventually, is achieved through a loose sense of correspondence (there are many ways to describe the world) and coherence (we try not to, but we often do hold contradicting beliefs).
    I very seldom have contradicting beliefs existing for very long, its unstable and causes stress. When there is stress, I need to resolve things. For example untruth sits and gnaws at me. Hence why I'm so confident in "The Truth". I assume things to be true until shown to be not so. Unlike STJ's who's beliefs are more routed in the past (Si), I actively seek out ways to break down my system. I enjoy being wrong as a consequence.

    Ni is a good at getting to the objective truth expediently because it works across domains.

    Do you agree?

  6. #656
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Gives mad respect to @Ginkgo for not only derailing the whole forum with this thread, but for producing a thread which, while derailing the whole forum, somehow managed to derail itself, rerail, and then derail again. We've got bonafide derail acrobatics goin on here.
    Sometimes you just apply a bit of pressure to a pressure point and the whole quantum infrastructure crumbles.

  7. #657
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    It doesn't work because there is not a way to tell whether you're doing it right. I can see this is very important to you so I want make it clear to you that showing your chart does not help you with credibility. That is because there is no way to tell whether your assessments were correct or not, since we don't know the people. It's just a chart with people's names under the headings. It demonstrates that you are thinking about this subject, but there's no way to know if your thinking is any good. You could have typed all the people wrong -- there's no way to tell.
    See below.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    ... and drollness.


    Well, Ed Wood shot films for years - in real life, too.
    Right but his films were shit.



    I have created a lot of real world success using my approach, bayesian and models. My approach to success is to not fail, which is quite different from say an STP's approach which would be opportunistically driven.

    I would have to be delusional. Unless you think people just "get lucky". If you really think building something from the ground up is just chance then you are delusional. I used it everyday in business to interact, to build teams etc. The teams wouldn't work properly if everyone was mistyped and I had no clue.

    I couldn't have predicted I needed a new CEO who was ESTP to take over from me to drive promotion and communicating messaging and to grow the company. etc. I saw this years ago. MBTI helped immensely.

    Here is a my management team.

    Rupert (ENTJ) Candice (ISFJ)
    Cliff (ENTP) Alan (ISTP)
    Gino (ESTJ) Paul (ISTJ)
    Tim (ESTP)

    Anyone want to guess who goes where? Of course the Finance Exec isn't the ENTP etc. You can't just guess your way. All statements I make can be called to task, there is congruence.

    So do you still doubt then my ability to type? You can question me all day and I'll respond and you can evaluate the statements and probe and interrogate, because I know my stuff and I'm good at it. Hence high degree of confidence in the model.

  8. #658
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by five View Post
    For example untruth sits and gnaws at me. Hence why I'm so confident in "The Truth".
    You are hilarious. Consider this: Everything but the color red does not sit well with you; in fact, it gnaws at you. Yet you wear blue every day, for you may, without ever realizing it, be colorblind. Thus is the nature of 'the Truth'.

    Quote Originally Posted by five View Post
    I assume things to be true until shown to be not so. Unlike STJ's who's beliefs are more routed in the past (Si), I actively seek out ways to break down my system. I enjoy being wrong as a consequence.
    That is a very strange thing to say. I hate to be wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by five View Post
    Ni is a good at getting to the objective truth expediently because it works across domains.

    Do you agree?
    That is a matter of definition.

  9. #659
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    You are hilarious. Consider this: Everything but the color red does not sit well with you; in fact, it gnaws at you. Yet you wear blue every day, for you may, without ever realizing it, be colorblind. Thus is the nature of 'the Truth'.
    I'm not sure how that relates. If my senses where faulty then I'd acknowledge that and compensate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    That is a very strange thing to say. I hate to be wrong.
    Nearly all people do not like being wrong. This aversion to "wrongness" can often prevent objective truth being learned at least in the short term.

  10. #660
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    Sometimes you just apply a bit of pressure to a pressure point and the whole quantum infrastructure crumbles.
    A bit like popping a zit, no?
    Last edited by highlander; 10-11-2011 at 11:34 PM. Reason: Digusting

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