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Thread: Fe Fakeness

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    You didn't answer my questions.

    So, you think that insulting other people is going to help you/them get closer to the truth in a more effective manner?
    Let's review what I said to CrescentFresh:

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra
    :yim_rolling_on_the_

    And this, this is just laughable.

    I have an ESFJ mother, and my girlfriend's mother is an ESFJ.

    You're trying to sell this bullshit to the wrong person.
    It seems that every statement in there was directly attacking her position, not her.

    And, frankly, yes, I believe that mocking and laughing at a stupid, ridiculous, false positions is a good way to throw them to the sewer pit of falseness where they belong.

  2. #52
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    And, frankly, yes, I believe that mocking and laughing at a stupid, ridiculous, false positions is a good way to throw them to the sewer pit of falseness where they belong.
    Ok, just wanted to be sure that really was your approach.
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  3. #53
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    Ok, just wanted to be sure that really was your approach.
    The point is: he is not trying to persuade her of the truth. I am sure he has read 'How to Make Friends and Influence People' and knows how ineffective his method would be in that case. In this case, it was much less about helping her realize something than it was about revealing the truth for everyone to see and discrediting the misinformant.

    People on the internet are often handled with less diplomacy because they are less important to the things that matter. I sometimes think that Zarathustra is overdoing it, but it is not my problem, and apparently it is not a problem for him either.

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    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post


    I don't think you're right here (although I think you do have a little bit of truth in there).

    Fi users aren't necessarily focused on bringing anything out in others -- they're focused on their own damn selves.

    This might end up stirring up other peoples' Fi, but it doesn't mean that's really their primary aim (if it's even their aim at all).

    You seem to be putting an Fe-oriented spin on what it is Fi-users do.
    Er... Not exactly, methinks. Fi users can be quite other-centered, just like Ti users can be practical and need proof to believe in something. Carl Rogers is a great example of an other-oriented INFP, for instance.

    Also, is it just me, or do you picture all Fe users as frumpy mannequins who do nothing but exchange meaningless pleasantries all day? Quite a few Fe users couldn't care less about whether or not they're being "improper".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    The point is: he is not trying to persuade her of the truth. I am sure he has read 'How to Make Friends and Influence People' and knows how ineffective his method would be in that case. In this case, it was much less about helping her realize something than it was about revealing the truth for everyone to see and discrediting the misinformant.

    People on the internet are often handled with less diplomacy because they are less important to the things that matter. I sometimes think that Zarathustra is overdoing it, but it is not my problem, and apparently it is not a problem for him either.
    Are you sure it's not about making himself feel superior? I ask merely for information.

    I mean, it may at least be worth noting that this is very much how this approach comes across.
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  6. #56
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    Are you sure it's not about making himself feel superior? I ask merely for information.

    I mean, it may at least be worth noting that this is very much how this approach comes across.
    It may play a role, it often does when people correct other people, but I doubt it is the main force.

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    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    It may play a role, it often does when people correct other people, but I doubt it is the main force.
    Would it make any difference if INTJs (generalizing here) considered that maybe this approach puts people's back up and is thus counter-productive as far as having meaningful dialogue and getting closer to the truth?

    I think to me (among other things) it's just a bit too close to sort of playground "you're a poo-poo head, so that makes me right and you wrong."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    The point is: he is not trying to persuade her of the truth. I am sure he has read 'How to Make Friends and Influence People' and knows how ineffective his method would be in that case. In this case, it was much less about helping her realize something than it was about revealing the truth for everyone to see and discrediting the misinformant.

    People on the internet are often handled with less diplomacy because they are less important to the things that matter. I sometimes think that Zarathustra is overdoing it, but it is not my problem, and apparently it is not a problem for him either.
    This is all very accurate.

    I do indeed own that book.

    I do, though, still want the person whose position I'm attacking to recognize the falsity of what they're saying, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    Er... Not exactly, methinks. Fi users can be quite other-centered, just like Ti users can be practical and need proof to believe in something. Carl Rogers is a great example of an other-oriented INFP, for instance.
    Good points.

    There is an interesting question here that I'm never quite certain how to resolve...

    What exactly is happening when Fi (or more generally, an internal source [an introverted function]) turns outward. Is it still the introverted function, or is it being turned outward via an extroverted function?

    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    Also, is it just me, or do you picture all Fe users as frumpy mannequins who do nothing but exchange meaningless pleasantries all day? Quite a few Fe users couldn't care less about whether or not they're being "improper".


    No, that's not my picture of all Fe-users.

    In fact, I just repped redcheerio about how NTPs (and the same even holds true for some [although, fewer] NFJs, from my experience) can manifest their Fe in highly anti-social ways. I believe Anti-social Personality Disorder is most highly correlated with ENTPs, in fact. But, yeah, that's a whole nother problem I have with Fe (I have an ESTP neighbor who vacillates between this shallow group moralizing and totally disgusting anti-social behavior -- he will literally flip it on and off and back to on within one conversation, like the flip of a switch).

  9. #59
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    Would it make any difference if INTJs (generalizing here) considered that maybe this approach puts people's back up and is thus counter-productive as far as having meaningful dialogue and getting closer to the truth?

    I think to me (among other things) it's just a bit too close to sort of playground "you're a poo-poo head, so that makes me right and you wrong."
    That is what my initial post meant to convey: meaningful dialogue is sometimes neither end nor means.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    Would it make any difference if INTJs (generalizing here) considered that maybe this approach puts people's back up and is thus counter-productive as far as having meaningful dialogue and getting closer to the truth?
    Yes, which is why, as Nicodemus pointed to in an earlier post, in real life, when things have real consequences, we don't use the same exact same approach as we would on an internet forum.

    We have to sacrifice our authenticity every single day to play by your Fe rules.

    It's kind of refreshing to let go of the bullshit and niceties when you're on here.

    On here, you can just say it how it really is.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    I think to me (among other things) it's just a bit too close to sort of playground "you're a poo-poo head, so that makes me right and you wrong."
    Have you considered that this is perhaps because you suck at Te?

    Your statement here seems to make absolutely no mention of the truth or falsity of either position.
    Last edited by Zarathustra; 09-25-2011 at 07:28 AM. Reason: typo strike-out

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