User Tag List

First 40484950515260 Last

Results 491 to 500 of 721

Thread: Fe Fakeness

  1. #491
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    4,318

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by violaine View Post
    @Kalach - Do you mean taking the lead in building a groundswell of something against the person?
    I don't know. Something to influence events or people, anyway. Undermine the asshat or approach him and harmonise? What's the right call?

    I'm asking about leadership for no particular reason that I recognise quite clearly. Just a collection of impressions: that Fe types do organise; that the purposes are unclear to me; and it seems often that overt statements of organisational goals are avoided.

    It SEEMS there are no opt-out clauses. It SEEMS that Fe organisation is polarising. It SEEMS that one is in or one is out, and one pays a price if one is out. And that last idea SEEMS to suggest Fe organisation involves the use of a peculiar kind of force.


    Just curious. And puzzled.


    ETA: Also, maybe there's some idea that if Fe Leadership were understood better then Fe Fakeness would stand in some different light, maybe even disappear as a concept.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  2. #492
    violaine
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Exactly how you described.
    Yes, I'm sure. I'm self-aware enough not to go overboard in either phase. I don't seek out a person that I know I don't get along with. And after a couple of hot/cold phases I completely phase myself out of that person's life where at all possible. If I can't phase out, then we have a little chat and usually it's to agree to disagree.

  3. #493
    Anew Leaf
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by violaine View Post
    Hmm, not sure if I'm on the same thought track. I don't want other people around me to start doing something or ostracize a person. I just can't believe how some people eat other's BS up with a spoon. But who is that hurting really? No one. So it's my little problem to get over. (Specifically, loudmouths who can't shut up about how great they are. Oh god, I want to stab myself in the ears around those people). The overarching thought that is at the heart of how I engage the world is "each to their own". But that conflicts with little bug bears I sometimes have, which I know are petty. I sometimes wonder if being a secondary Fe-er with awful Fi means I don't really feel entitled to my opinions about others on some level.

    I can't speak for Dom Fe of course.
    At least for me... people who do this amuse me so I like to encourage their misguided thoughts.

    Example, I have this annoying ESFJ friend who likes to brag about status of things.

    ESFJ: I went skiing this weekend in Vail. Once you ski in real mountains, you are just ruined for anything but!
    Me: Oh? You ski? I didn't know that.
    ESFJ: Yes I do!
    Me: Wow! How long has this been going on for? How often do you ski? Do you have your own skis? Do you fly to Vail often to ski? Minnesota is pretty flat so what do you do when you aren't in Vail?

    etc. I just keep asking question after question because I already know the truth of the matter since I've known her 18 years. She skis 1 time per year and it's always on the "giant hill in Minnesota".

    So if you are out with a Fi person and they aren't calling people on their BS, it is sometimes because life is far more amusing having a private chuckle and letting the idiot think that I am stupid enough to fall for their delusions of grandeur.

  4. #494
    Tempbanned
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/so
    Posts
    8,161

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by violaine View Post
    Hmm, not sure if I'm on the same thought track.

    I can't speak for Dom Fe of course.
    Yeah, to be honest, your description sounded pretty reasonable to me.

    I think what I said applies more to EFJs.

  5. #495
    violaine
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    I don't know. Something to influence events or people, anyway. Undermine the asshat or approach him and harmonise? What's the right call?

    I'm asking about leadership for no particular reason that I recognise quite clearly. Just a collection of impressions: that Fe types do organise; that the purposes are unclear to me; and it seems often that overt statements of organisational goals are avoided.

    It SEEMS there are no opt-out clauses. It SEEMS that Fe organisation is polarising. It SEEMS that one is in or one is out, and one pays a price if one is out. And that last idea SEEMS to suggest Fe organisation involves the use of a peculiar kind of force.


    Just curious. And puzzled.
    I'm uncomfortable with the idea of influencing others. Makes me feel responsible for them. With rare exception, I'm only concerned with my own relationship with another person. (I'm prob more interested in identifying systemic style problems and that might be an area where I push my own agenda a bit). I like dialogue and discussion where the truth of a topic takes centre stage, stripped of people's own overarching need to be right and others wrong. That certainly can be a consequence of a discussion, but when that is someone's main objective, eh, just boring to me. It's not an honest discussion to me.

    I like feeling I'll be accepted in my closer relationships. I need that in order to let my walls down, though I'm trying another way where I am myself and negative feedback be damned. I am always myself, I'm just superficial with most people, I don't let most people in. Also, this is only a factor in close relationships or if I admire someone. I can shrug off what most other people might think of me.

    Sorry, this is a little disjointed. I've had interruptions galore!

  6. #496
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    953 sp/so
    Posts
    5,708

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by violaine View Post
    Hmm I wonder if this qualifies as Fe fakeness:
    [good description]
    Actually, even Fi types do this, just try to get along and ignore the bad points.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    ^^ Yeah, I think that's why Fi's complaints are a little more reasonable.

    Fe-ers want Fi to start doing something.

    Fi-ers are just like, "Leave me the fuck alone, dude."
    Except, as you have noted, Z, sometimes we need to say that to other Fi types as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by violaine View Post
    I'm uncomfortable with the idea of influencing others. Makes me feel responsible for them. With rare exception, I'm only concerned with my own relationship with another person. (I'm prob more interested in identifying systemic style problems and that might be an area where I push my own agenda a bit). I like dialogue and discussion where the truth of a topic takes centre stage, stripped of people's own overarching need to be right and others wrong. That certainly can be a consequence of a discussion, but when that is someone's main objective, eh, just boring to me. It's not an honest discussion to me.

    I like feeling I'll be accepted in my closer relationships. I need that in order to let my walls down, though I'm trying another way where I am myself and negative feedback be damned. I am always myself, I'm just superficial with most people, I don't let most people in. Also, this is only a factor in close relationships or if I admire someone. I can shrug off what most other people might think of me.

    Sorry, this is a little disjointed. I've had interruptions galore!
    I think the bolded may be key. With most people, Fe is rather superficial. It is nice to be nice and to get along and not cause trouble. Fi in the same situation isn't so much superficial as avoidant. In particular, Fi-doms tend to avoid, while Fi-aux tends to bring up Te to deal with unpleasant situations.

    The Fi/Fe conflict is that both sides can "read" each other. Badly. Especially if it's text-only without body language and tone of voice.

    Interestingly, there is an ENFP/INFJ parallel here, where the behavior is similar, but what is going on inside is very different. ENFPs can be very (genuinely) friendly, almost too much so, sometimes indicating a depth of interest that really isn't there. The friendliness is genuine, but the depth is a misread (often on the part of INTJs ). INFJs tend to hold back, but when they're nice, they're very nice, and a similar misread can occur, especially if the niceness is their "niceness shield" to protect themselves from unpleasant encounters. At times, the "niceness shield" can backfire, and be misread as NFPs as insincere. (Yes, NTJs are Fi, too, but face it, for the most part, we NTJs don't read things that deeply.)
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  7. #497
    violaine
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    At least for me... people who do this amuse me so I like to encourage their misguided thoughts.

    Example, I have this annoying ESFJ friend who likes to brag about status of things.

    ESFJ: I went skiing this weekend in Vail. Once you ski in real mountains, you are just ruined for anything but!
    Me: Oh? You ski? I didn't know that.
    ESFJ: Yes I do!
    Me: Wow! How long has this been going on for? How often do you ski? Do you have your own skis? Do you fly to Vail often to ski? Minnesota is pretty flat so what do you do when you aren't in Vail?

    etc. I just keep asking question after question because I already know the truth of the matter since I've known her 18 years. She skis 1 time per year and it's always on the "giant hill in Minnesota".

    So if you are out with a Fi person and they aren't calling people on their BS, it is sometimes because life is far more amusing having a private chuckle and letting the idiot think that I am stupid enough to fall for their delusions of grandeur.
    God, I wish I could see through the searing red in order to be calm enough to do this. LMAO. Yes! This drives me crazy. I don't know why it's such a trigger for me. Maybe because it's like, wow, do you think I'm stupid enough that I'm going to believe all this? It's not envy either, I'm so happy when good things happen for people, it's the BS factor where people over-inflate who they are, repeatedly. Gimme a break. Still, a lot of other people buy into it or even enjoy people like that. It makes no sense to me! *massive shrugs*

  8. #498
    Glycerine
    Guest

    Default

    @violaine, can I join you in the stabbing around those annoying people? Along the same vein, the people who always use personal anecdotes to prove their points.... I DO NOT CARE WHAT YOUR FREAKING BF OR CHILD DID... lol

  9. #499
    Anew Leaf
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by violaine View Post
    God, I wish I could see through the searing red in order to be calm enough to do this. LMAO. Yes! This drives me crazy. I don't know why it's such a trigger for me. Maybe because it's like, wow, do you think I'm stupid enough that I'm going to believe all this? It's not envy either, I'm so happy when good things happen for people, it's the BS factor where people over-inflate who they are, repeatedly. Gimme a break. Still, a lot of other people buy into it or even enjoy people like that. It makes no sense to me! *massive shrugs*
    LOL exactly.

    I make it into a game to see how long I can go without chuckling outwardly. I like to gradually progress the absurdity of what I am asking to the point where they get this look on their face like "is she mocking me?" Her stepdad is an ESTJ who once bragged to me how he spent 10k on a computer. I knew he only used it for email and while he was a decent chap, I got tired of his need to make me understand What A Big Deal He Is. So I would ask innocent questions about what he used his computer for. How much processing speed his emails took up. How much harddrive space was required to browse the internet. And how big of a video card one needed to make solitaire look adequate.

    The alternative was to scream and run from the room like a banshee.

  10. #500
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 so/sp
    Posts
    2,912

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by violaine View Post
    Hmm I wonder if this qualifies as Fe fakeness: (NB: My use of the term does not imply agreement with the concept. ;-) )

    I prefer to see most people's good points and get along. Who am I to judge otherwise. *shrug* There are some people I want to like. I really want to. But then, they act like a complete asshat imo and for a period of time I just can't stand that person. I also cannot believe that other people around me don't seem to see or react to what an ass someone is being. *facepalm* I try not to act on this in any other way but by avoiding the person for a while until I can bear their company again. If I must vent to a close friend, it will be with the full disclosure of that I know my opinion is just that. Then I will eventually return to my default of trying to see the good and like the person again. I can only imagine what this looks like to an outsider. Hot/cold/hot/cold. I never feel fake at all. I really do prefer harmony and peace.
    I totally get this and don't find it fake. I think it a very decent thing to do, attempting to give a person a second chance to prove their worth and not letting your judgement be clouded by a possible wrong impression. most people don't make this effort.

    I think uumlau is right, Fi-user will do this too, but perhaps in a different way. It might be more like lukewarm/icy/lukewarm/icy . I don't tend to doubt my opinion, though, when others disagree with me. Instead I'm always wondering if I'm either: failing to consider all the possible reasons as to why that person is behaving like that; or if I'm just being a grumpy cow. I then feel committed to pushing my own irritability/prejudice aside and make a concerted effort to be more impartial/reasonable/compassionate.

    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    I think the bolded may be key. With most people, Fe is rather superficial. It is nice to be nice and to get along and not cause trouble. Fi in the same situation isn't so much superficial as avoidant. In particular, Fi-doms tend to avoid, while Fi-aux tends to bring up Te to deal with unpleasant situations.
    I don't know. I typically do a similar thing to what violaine described. I certainly can be very avoidant but its something I'm trying to, well, avoid... I often go into a mode of superficial pleasantries for the sake of others - however this is a more value driven approach than a Fe approach (ie. I'm pushing myself to be more agreeable and sociable). It's partly a defense strategy (maybe just veiled avoidance ) but I also think it's an attempt to adapt to the very Fe-oriented society. Leading with Fi doesn't really win people over in the average social situation, so I have to suppress my instincts and inclinations. But then maybe Fe-users do the same. Maybe they're just better than I am at burying their nature and what's on their mind, in order to better get along with others.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

Similar Threads

  1. [Fe] Any INFJs who think Fe is "fake"?
    By SilkRoad in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 46
    Last Post: 12-26-2011, 12:42 AM
  2. [NF] Other NF's hate salespeople's fake Fe?
    By Lily flower in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 10-15-2011, 11:09 AM
  3. [Fe] Is Fe fake or manipulative?
    By jixmixfix in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 341
    Last Post: 08-05-2011, 11:28 PM
  4. [Fe] Fe is fake and manipulative (proofs inside)
    By INTP in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 07-21-2011, 01:04 AM
  5. [Fe] Fe: No cute title...I just don't get it
    By sakuraba in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 106
    Last Post: 11-18-2008, 09:07 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO