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Thread: Fe Fakeness

  1. #41
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    :yim_rolling_on_the_

    And this, this is just laughable.

    I have an ESFJ mother, and my girlfriend's mother is an ESFJ.

    You're trying to sell this bullshit to the wrong person.
    See, I think this is what Fidelia was trying to get at earlier. Even in the light of all your rhetoric about wanting the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, why is the above necessary, and what do you hope to accomplish with it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    See, I think this is what Fidelia was trying to get at earlier. Even in the light of all your rhetoric about wanting the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, why is the above necessary, and what do you hope to accomplish with it?
    I thought what she said was offensive.

    I started with just the laugh.

    Then I added the line about it being laughable.

    Then I wanted to explain myself a bit more.

    *

    If it makes you feel any better, the poster has pm'ed me with questions on the topic, and we're having a nice, pleasant discussion.

  3. #43
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    I thought what she said was offensive.

    I started with just the laugh.

    Then I added the line about it being laughable.

    Then I wanted to explain myself a bit more.

    If it makes you feel any better, the poster has pm'ed me with questions on the topic, and we're having a nice, pleasant discussion.
    ^ That's good to hear.

    It seems though that this is a fairly common INTJ tactic (derisiveness, mockery and trying to make the other person feel intellectually inferior), and I don't think it's always going to end in a pleasant discussion. Despite everyone's hatred of Fe, surely there should be some comprehension that an avoidance of mud-slinging will smooth the way for better discussions and the discovery of the truth? Because make no mistake, the above is mud-slinging.
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  4. #44
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crescent Fresh View Post
    That's why it's quite easy for both Fe and Fi users clashes when they both wanted to take the lead within the same community--which leads to Fe users will serve as a gatekeeper and Fi users will serve as a crusader--both for a greater and better cause of humanity.
    Ah, the Fe gatekeepers. That's the exact word that is used in business for the type of people who guard the decision-makers. They can be firm and charming, but easily removed from the path. As for the Fi crusaders, a great example is in the movie, Runaway Jury.

    To cut to the chase - during jury selection a guy stands up, smashes fake blood all over his chest and yells, "This is the blood of innocent children because of the greedy gun companies. I WANT TO BE HEARD!!!!! I WANT TO BE HEARD!!!" The security guards drag the guy out by his arms and legs while he's still screaming.

    Harvey Milk just came to mind, from decades ago. Definitely an Fi crusader, who stood up for what he believed in—gay rights— while he clashed with the poster girl for conservative Fe values and social norms at an extreme - Anita Bryant. That was the quintessential Fi-Fe battle. Unfortunately, Milk was murdered while in public office.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Unfortunately, Milk was murdered while in public office.
    And by an Fe-user, no less...



    (kidding, I have no idea...)

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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    ^ That's good to hear.

    It seems though that this is a fairly common INTJ tactic (derisiveness, mockery and trying to make the other person feel intellectually inferior), and I don't think it's always going to end in a pleasant discussion. Despite everyone's hatred of Fe, surely there should be some comprehension that an avoidance of mud-slinging will smooth the way for better discussions and the discovery of the truth? Because make no mistake, the above is mud-slinging.
    Thank you for trying to impose your values on me.

    Here, how about we strike a deal, you and me, on behalf of all TeFi users and TiFe users: if a Ti-user never again tries to pass off for truth something that is blatantly false, I and my INTJ brethren will never again offend their sensibilities by blasting it (and possibly them) for doing so. Deal?

  7. #47
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Thank you for trying to impose your values on me.

    Here, how about we strike a deal, you and me, on behalf of all TeFi users and TiFe users: if a Ti-user never again passes off for truth something that is blatantly false, I and my INTJ brethren will never again offend their sensibilities by blasting it (and possibly them) for doing so. Deal?
    You didn't answer my questions.

    So, you think that insulting other people is going to help you/them get closer to the truth in a more effective manner?
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  8. #48
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    By an Fe-user, no less.

    Milk's murder and its place in history is not something this country found amusing.
    Tell me, Z, what is your purpose here other than to be a troll?

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  10. #50
    Senior Member redcheerio's Avatar
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    This!

    Quote Originally Posted by five View Post
    Whilst this is a general NT trait. NTP's don't seem to do anything about untruth and ENTJ's get distracted and move on (being extroverts). I think it really really bugs INTJ's though.

    Everyone should just stop and think about this. I've said the same thing for years, yet it seems to fall on deaf ears. It's such an important point. I've seen so many communities devolve into ignorant, untruthful Fe-parties with too much noise and no signal, because niceties are placed above truth.


    Content information and Feeling information.

    It's very exausting for NTJ's to package something nicely, but when the Feeling and the Content channel match then it creates Impact.

    Since INTJ's are generally only tuned to the Content channel we make bad persuaders. The upside is it's far less distracting and easier to discern truth.
    I think it bugs NTPs, too, because of Ti's desire for truth and accuracy, but we learn to pick our battles because of our Fe understanding of this.

    It's a long and painful struggle for many of us, though. Especially if we grew up on the east coast where direct communication is the norm, then we move to the west coast where political favor is more important than competence, and where you can quickly lose political favor if you accidentally offend someone by being too direct in your communication without enough niceties.

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