Just because I seemed somewhat insincere to them; we'd usually get along quite well, but they would often feel as though I wasn't expressing what I really felt, or that I never had all my cards on the table. Actually, more like they could never see how big my hand was, if that makes sense.
It's entirely true for ESFJs. My ESFJ ex-wife would regale me with tales from her work. She would be miffed if I gave any indication that I might not be paying close attention (though she'd be so into her narrative that she'd often not notice). Then she would want to hear about my day. Her workdays usually map well to (Fe-style) narratives, interacting with people, griping about people, expressing how things went well or badly with people. My workdays don't map that well: my work is 80% all in my head, where I'm trying to solve problems that most others would be disinclined to even contemplate. There are maybe one or two short meetings, and otherwise I'm trying to make things work right. Asking me to tell a story about my workday is equivalent to telling me to do all that work again (by thinking about it), but also to go through the chore of translating it into words that others might have a chance of comprehending. And so, she would feel alienated from me because I couldn't share my workday in that way.
I would guess that it's an Fe-Si thing. Remember that for introverted perceiving and extroverted judging, if the introverted perceiving comes first, then it's "reflect, then do". If extroverted judging is first, it's "do, then reflect." Fe dominant is of quite a different degree than Fe aux, much more intense.
An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.
A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.
In my experience, much of @uumlau's post seems to apply to ENFJs as well, in the sense that they also get offended if they realise you're not paying attention to them and that they also emphasize the importance of reciprocity. What they expect in terms of reciprocity is slightly more loosely defined because they seem to make some allowances for different thought and communication styles. In my experience, that can possibly be even more invasive, especially when they're trying to extract ideas from you that haven't fully matured yet. Being able to draw those sorts of revelations out from others seems to be a very important part of their self-validation, so being persistently cagy can leave them feeling slighted, especially if they're close to you.
I agree, mostly, yes ... but I didn't frame it well either as to my meaning either ...
I am not talking about any kind of manipulation here, and it wouldn't be without an abundance of passion.
And this isn't for the small stuff, the little daily things that just need a gentle nudge here and there.
Anyhoodle, I'll try to explain later but for the moment, I just wanted to share that I somehow didn't explain myself well up there and will come back to this.
On no worries Miss PB! Later on after some thought I realized that all you would need to do is communicate the Fi cause..I'd either agree and then help you. or disagrre and discuss. Additionally, i have also been taking the slightly less direct route myself nowdays, depending upon the topic. I dont prefer it, but it can be more effective-it is all about the auidiance, I suspect.
Originally Posted by Giggly
I understand this now. I'm sorry you've had to go through that.
I just don't do these sorts of things to others in my real life (but it's done to me sometimes and it really hurts so I truly do understand) so I'm unable to help in any way here. I guess my Fe is just different than that. The other problem is I'm just not well versed in typology stuff, in order to help. The INFJs are better versed in it than me, so I just let them handle it. But yeah, I guess I am a little sensitive, and it doesn't help that I'm never thinking about typology or the fact that blanket judgments happen.
Awww, thanks for understanding-that is more than enough honestly. I also think, as you noted, that we can be senstive to others, without really understanding why, and not fall into some of these I spent about five years with an ISFJ as an office mate and she was so different from me, but also really wonderful. In retrospect, some of the differences could have been pedicted by the Fi/Fe divide, but I always ignored tham as individual preferences, and loved her all the same for being a beautiful person. In the same way, she really loved me and would give me advice, but it never felt hurtful. I suspect she held back at times, ignoring little things I did that were annoying as they were just "me". Without any silly theory, we could just sort of co-exist and care for each other...
Additionally, as much as we bemoan the hurts we feel at Fe, the Fi folks do things that hurt our FJ and TP friends very often, although we dont realize it at the time-we tend to neglect those continous emo bonds and invalidate the Fe values you guys hold as valued, since we dont always understand them. My entp often share how loist she feels when trying to live in a house of ISTJs-she cant find the emotional connection she needs. She has been my primary motivation fro learning Fe skills as I want to give her the type of emotional interaction that she needs from our friendship...lol, but it is so funny at times as it is like trying to speak spanish.
It's entirely true for ESFJs. My ESFJ ex-wife would regale me with tales from her work. She would be miffed if I gave any indication that I might not be paying close attention (though she'd be so into her narrative that she'd often not notice). Then she would want to hear about my day. Her workdays usually map well to (Fe-style) narratives, interacting with people, griping about people, expressing how things went well or badly with people. My workdays don't map that well: