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Thread: Fe Fakeness

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by five View Post
    Have you also considered though that your emotion is not logically connected to that of the audience.

    In other words I can deliver Content with Feeling, even though I do not feel it. I call this our Marketing department.
    Yes, we INTJs here call it "Te imitating Fe"

  2. #32
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    Also I used to be uncomfortable with this because I thought it violated my Fi principle of no-deception. But actually it's not deceptive at all, it's more like.. translating.

    I know I'm not being precise but I can expound on why I don't think it's deceptive in more detail if you like.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by five View Post
    Also I used to be uncomfortable with this because I thought it violated my Fi principle of no-deception. But actually it's not deceptive at all, it's more like.. translating.

    I know I'm not being precise but I can expound on why I don't think it's deceptive in more detail if you like.
    It's cool.

    I already understand.

    It's the Te-imperative.

    Well, the NiTeFiSe-imperative, if you really wanna be precise.

  4. #34
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    What I take away from an exchange like this is "You are of low intelligence" "You cannot even construct an initial argument properly", "You know nothing compared to me", "I have all the answers". It frustrates me, because I expect you have some interesting thoughts to consider, and I would like to be open to them, but the overwhelming waft of arrogance and superiority that that communication style conveys to me (and I'm not saying others would perceive it in the same way), makes it hard for me to listen open-mindedly. Please give me some context for why that is your initial reaction and conversations response to most discussions, or what your intent is so that I can perceive it differently.
    My perspective is that Te and Fe doms and aux's can all come across like this, actually - the content of the exchange feels different however. Fe is more like, "You don't understand the people dynamics here" or "You don't have a clue about getting along with other people" "You aren't communicating with me in the proper fashion" and "I am right, you've done wrong."

    Back to the very simple PB rule: Fe and Te always think they are right unless proven otherwise.

    And it's easier to convince Te, btw, because it's objectively objective as opposed to objectively subjective.

    That "always right" law applies to you too Z.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    That applies to you too Z.
    I know.

    I don't deny that I can be wrong.

    It just doesn't happen very often (cuz I try to make sure it doesn't).

    I go through a far more rigorous checking (i.e., intentional self-doubting) of my position than just about anybody I've ever met.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    And it's easier to convince Te, btw, because it's objectively objective as opposed to objectively subjective.
    And this.

    This is why Fe is so annoying, imo.

    At least, in my case, when I'm being an asshole, it's with an aim to complete objectivity.

    It's based on facts, empiricism, and raw, impersonal truth.

    Fe has the same pushiness, but it's all so subjective.

  6. #36
    Diving into Ni-space Crescent Fresh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    If someone prefers Fi, then by definition, their perspective is to orient humane evaluation inward, or to devlaue the object and eliminate what's irrelevant, as we've been pointing out with some more of Jung's definition.
    That's why Fe would seem fake. The person believes this should be internal, and when they see someone merging with the object in humane matters instead, it doesn't look genuine.
    It's sort of like asking the question "why do you just adopt the morality of what others do?"
    I agree. Basically it's a whole ordeal of Social values (Fe) vs. Internal values (Fi).

    Fi users focus on bringing out others unconscious by voicing up their own unique worldviews and values; whereas Fe users are more internally concern about letting people to discover it on their own without any forceful persuasion of one's ideology.

    That's why it's quite easy for both Fe and Fi users clashes when they both wanted to take the lead within the same community--which leads to Fe users will serve as a gatekeeper and Fi users will serve as a crusader--both for a greater and better cause of humanity.

    Though what I don't understand is this--if Fe users are often seen as "fake" by Fi users via "groupthink," then Fi users seem to ignore the fact that our groupthink is indeed derived from our inner-world of "personal values."

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crescent Fresh View Post
    Fi users focus on bringing out others unconscious by voicing up their own unique worldviews and values...


    I don't think you're right here (although I think you do have a little bit of truth in there).

    Fi users aren't necessarily focused on bringing anything out in others -- they're focused on their own damn selves.

    This might end up stirring up other peoples' Fi, but it doesn't mean that's really their primary aim (if it's even their aim at all).

    You seem to be putting an Fe-oriented spin on what it is Fi-users do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crescent Fresh View Post
    ...whereas Fe users are more internally concern about letting people to discover it on their own without any forceful persuasion of one's ideology.
    :yim_rolling_on_the_

    And this, this is just laughable.

    I have an ESFJ mother, and my girlfriend's mother is an ESFJ.

    You're trying to sell this bullshit to the wrong person.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crescent Fresh View Post
    Though what I don't understand is this--if Fe users are often seen as "fake" by Fi users via "groupthink," then Fi users seem to ignore the fact that our groupthink is indeed derived from our inner-world of "personal values."
    Well, that's the paradox.

    I'm still revsolving it, but I've been working on it for a good while now (maybe a year-plus).

    Fe users may indeed be following what is genuinely guiding them (which would seem to be authentic), but what is guiding them is not actually internally sourced, it is externally sourced (which would seem to be inauthentic).

    No matter which way you cut it, because of this, Fi is more authentic, as it satisfies both of those conditions.

    The most inauthentic way to be, though, is to follow the external rules, even though they don't jibe with your personal values.

    That would be like an Fi-user giving in and following the Fe-peoples' imperatives.

    **

    It's because of this that Fi-users, especially INTJs, often take issue with the forum rules.

    We feel it is more likely to do damage to our authenticity than it is to the authenticity of others.

    It's basically confining the acceptable amount of authenticity to the (lesser) authenticity of Fe-users.

    *prepares to be forced to drink the hemlock by the mods*
    Last edited by Zarathustra; 09-25-2011 at 07:09 AM. Reason: spelling typo

  8. #38
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    [note: the response I am responding to here was deleted by the user]

    Quote Originally Posted by Crescent Fresh View Post
    Not Fe-oriented but Ne-oriented.
    Ehh, no.

    I meant precisely what I said.

    Excellent demonstration of that Fe non-pushiness onto other people, there, though.



    Quote Originally Posted by Crescent Fresh View Post
    Though your point is valid as I didn't take Ni-Fi users in account.
    Nor did you seem to take Si-Fi users.

    Nor, as my original message stated, was your original message really accurate about FPs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crescent Fresh View Post
    I'm actually not quite familar with SJ in particular. I merely constructed my post based on NF and I should've clarified it first.
    Hmm, well, I have considered that SFJs are more pushy than NFJs, so I can grant you a bit of leeway there.

    ESFJs also seem to be more pushy than ISFJs.

    Interestingly enough, though, I'm not as sure if it holds true with the NFJs.

    I'm not sure that ENFJs are really actually any lessmore pushy than INFJs.

    Most INFJs have that God's-speaking-in-my-ear righteousness.
    Last edited by Zarathustra; 09-25-2011 at 07:11 AM. Reason: brain fart

  9. #39
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    If TJs and FPs only use Fi, and Fi invariably causes Fi users to assume that displays of emotion are fake, then are demonstrations of Fe fake?
    P.S.: Incorrect - your premise is flawed.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    P.S.: Incorrect - your premise is flawed.
    I'm still wondering whether Tater started it with a false premise on purpose...

    @Ginkgo

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