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Thread: Fe Fakeness

  1. #331
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    I actually don't know what the fakeness criticism is, really. What I'm mostly aware of around "obvious" Fe types is competition for organisational control. They have priorities I just don't get but to my sense of things their priorities are genuinely theirs. My experience of SFJs range from the horrible to the merely exhausting. NFJs are easier to get along with even though agreement never happens. TPs, particularly ETPs, can come off as trying to screw with me on purpose, which is unsettling, but they need me to react first usually. But to me they all look quite clearly like they're attempting to manage the external world and they have some set of real priorities to that management. At least on my own level I understand that this kind of approach to the world is real and derives from real impulses.
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  2. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    You know there is some truth to this. It doesn't bother me like it does you Orobas but it still can and does. I can feel unappreciated, get annoyed, sometimes angry and yes defensive. It's criticizing me somehow as to who I am at my core. My reaction might be for example, "I'm happy to consider whatever views and opinions you have. Really I am. But NO. I really should NOT FEEL THAT WAY. Be free to feel whatever way you want though."

    Of course Fi is not as high up the stack for me and so I might be more immune.
    Yeah, this is much closer to how I feel.

    I'm not at all like, Oro, really -- aside from being bothered by it.

    My reaction is something like, "What the fuck are you talking about? Don't tell me how to feel. Fine, you feel that way. That's your prerogative. But there ain't nothing objective about it, and I sure as shit don't need to feel that way." Then, if they keep pressing the issue, I give kind of a, "Back the fuck off, cuz I already think you're being an idiot, and I'm holding this fact back in order to keep things civil, but if you keep pressing me on this, I may very well let you know how I feel."

    Of course, I suppose there are other times where I just pretend like I agree in order to keep things running smoothly.

    Te imitating Fe. Gotta choose your battles. Sometimes what they're saying even kinda makes sense. Who'da thunk? :P

  3. #333
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    You know there is some truth to this. It doesn't bother me like it does you Orobas but it still can and does. I can feel unappreciated, get annoyed, sometimes angry and yes defensive. It's criticizing me somehow as to who I am at my core. My reaction might be for example, "I'm happy to consider whatever views and opinions you have. Really I am. But NO. I really should NOT FEEL THAT WAY. Be free to feel whatever way you want though."
    Of course Fi is not as high up the stack for me and so I might be more immune.
    based on the rest of this post, I'm inclined to think otherwise
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  4. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    It's criticizing me somehow as to who I am at my core.
    yeah. that.

    i feel like... Fi'ers are used to giving/receiving "space"... like... we all operate with "bubbles" of personality around us, and what i do within my bubble is of little concern to everyone else, because it's my bubble. and i don't infringe on others' bubbles and they don't infringe on mine. and if we don't like each other, we just don't interact. but Fe'ers seem like they interact on a spiderweb, and what anyone does at their intersection on the web vibrates through to everyone else. and so you always must be aware of how you are acting and how it will come off to others and you are always aware of how others are acting and how that changes things for you.

    trying to use the Fe perspective is very energy-draining for me... it seems like a lot of work.

  5. #335
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    There is nothing like 4 or 5 EXXJs vying for power... just shoot me now... it's quite a spectacle. LOL That's how all the family reunions on my dad's side are like. He and I stay the fuck out of it.

  6. #336
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    I'm not so sure that it's a rejection per se, as much as it is a desire or tendency to avoid considering the reasoning of the opposing judging function preference. It's a question of universality and rules (Te/Fi) compared to contextualization and relationships (Ti/Fe).

    There is a logic within these connections of the conscious and unconscious, at the same time. Te, the preference to conceive of all aspects of the outside world as falling within a universal framework that exists separate from individual perspective, intermeshes nicely with Fi, the preference to connect one's subjective perspective of value with a universal meaning. Unconscious Te reinforces conscious Fi in that it interconnects the importance of the conscious evaluation of the truth of a matter with an unconscious understanding that universal rules exist even in the absence of subjective perception. A conscious Fi preference therefore leads a person to view his judgment of the truth of a matter not as something created by himself, but as a recognition of a universal truth that already existed separate from his perception, i.e. within a Te framework. Unconscious Fi reinforces conscious Te by strengthening one's preference to conceive of the outside world as consisting of universal, objective, and quantifiable relationships, through an unconscious preference toward valuing the world for containing universal truths. A conscious Te preference therefore leads a person to view the systems and frameworks she develops in the outside world as more than simply human artifice, but instead, as expressions of the harmony and truth that flows throughout the universe, that is, the Fi resonance.

    Fe, the preference to determine value in the outside world through the establishment of relationships existing within a particular social context, irrespective of other contexts, also coincides with Ti, the preference to connect one's subjective perceptions of impersonal relationships within a particular contextual framework. Unconscious Fe informs conscious Ti through constantly reinforcing the idea that outcomes associated with massive frameworks of interpersonal relationship, such as society, are massively influenced by the context in which an individual performs a particular action, along with that individual's social status, which can vary from another's status by the slightest of degrees. A conscious Ti preference therefore inclines a person to view all relationships, particularly internal, impersonal ones, as dependent on the precise definition of the agent-variable, and particular context in which the agent-variable acts, unconsciously treating these impersonally related concepts as if they were persons interacting with one another. This also helps explain the Fe-like personal investment that he may have in these idea-relationships. Unconscious Ti informs conscious Fe by providing an internal framework by which the person can arrange the massive, complicated interrelationships within a social structure and understand how they all interact with one another. A conscious Fe preference thus inclines a person toward viewing social networks as rational structures with internal logic, and certain social actions as leading to certain outcomes under certain contexts, as if it were a sort of logical puzzle or heuristic that the unconscious Ti would enjoy.

    If the Fi preference rejects anything about the Fe preference, it is the idea that things can or should be valued based on their context. Instead, things do have universal value that does not waver, regardless of circumstance. The Te preference would, in regard to that which appeals to the Fe preference, reject the idea that relationships and subjective context represent what is fundamentally important about our existence, maintaining that instead, these are mere aspects of the fundamentally greater logic and coherency that exists all throughout the universe, both within our existence and absent from it.

    You may, of course, disagree.


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  7. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    I actually don't know what the fakeness criticism is, really. What I'm mostly aware of around "obvious" Fe types is competition for organisational control. They have priorities I just don't get but to my sense of things their priorities are genuinely theirs. My experience of SFJs range from the horrible to the merely exhausting. NFJs are easier to get along with even though agreement never happens. TPs, particularly ETPs, can come off as trying to screw with me on purpose, which is unsettling, but they need me to react first usually. But to me they all look quite clearly like they're attempting to manage the external world and they have some set of real priorities to that management. At least on my own level I understand that this kind of approach to the world is real and derives from real impulses.
    Great descriptions.

    I feel you on all of em, especially getting along with but never agreeing with the NFJs, and feeling like the ETPs are always trying to fuck with you (but that you, ultimately, have control).

    I think the reason Fi people often describe it as fake is because we feel like we can just trust Fi people more: that they're not just putting on a face.

    Now, whether it's accurate to say that Fi people don't put on a face ever or at all: I wouldn't say that.

    I just think Fe people always seem to be putting on a face.

    Fe is the trickster function for INTJs, though, so it's a predictable reaction...

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    i feel like... Fi'ers are used to giving/receiving "space"... like... we all operate with "bubbles" of personality around us, and what i do within my bubble is of little concern to everyone else, because it's my bubble. and i don't infringe on others' bubbles and they don't infringe on mine. and if we don't like each other, we just don't interact. but Fe'ers seem like they interact on a spiderweb, and what anyone does at their intersection on the web vibrates through to everyone else. and so you always must be aware of how you are acting and how it will come off to others and you are always aware of how others are acting and how that changes things for you.

    trying to use the Fe perspective is very energy-draining for me... it seems like a lot of work.
    This.

    I'm socially awkward enough as is.

    Don't need Fe'ers behavioral rules all jumpin down my throat on top of it.

  8. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    I'm not so sure that it's a rejection per se, as much as it is a desire or tendency to avoid considering the reasoning of the opposing judging function preference. It's a question of universality and rules (Te/Fi) compared to contextualization and relationships (Ti/Fe).

    There is a logic within these connections of the conscious and unconscious, at the same time. Te, the preference to conceive of all aspects of the outside world as falling within a universal framework that exists separate from individual perspective, intermeshes nicely with Fi, the preference to connect one's subjective perspective of value with a universal meaning. Unconscious Te reinforces conscious Fi in that it interconnects the importance of the conscious evaluation of the truth of a matter with an unconscious understanding that universal rules exist even in the absence of subjective perception. A conscious Fi preference therefore leads a person to view his judgment of the truth of a matter not as something created by himself, but as a recognition of a universal truth that already existed separate from his perception, i.e. within a Te framework. Unconscious Fi reinforces conscious Te by strengthening one's preference to conceive of the outside world as consisting of universal, objective, and quantifiable relationships, through an unconscious preference toward valuing the world for containing universal truths. A conscious Te preference therefore leads a person to view the systems and frameworks she develops in the outside world as more than simply human artifice, but instead, as expressions of the harmony and truth that flows throughout the universe, that is, the Fi resonance.

    Fe, the preference to determine value in the outside world through the establishment of relationships existing within a particular social context, irrespective of other contexts, also coincides with Ti, the preference to connect one's subjective perceptions of impersonal relationships within a particular contextual framework. Unconscious Fe informs conscious Ti through constantly reinforcing the idea that outcomes associated with massive frameworks of interpersonal relationship, such as society, are massively influenced by the context in which an individual performs a particular action, along with that individual's social status, which can vary from another's status by the slightest of degrees. A conscious Ti preference therefore inclines a person to view all relationships, particularly internal, impersonal ones, as dependent on the precise definition of the agent-variable, and particular context in which the agent-variable acts, unconsciously treating these impersonally related concepts as if they were persons interacting with one another. This also helps explain the Fe-like personal investment that he may have in these idea-relationships. Unconscious Ti informs conscious Fe by providing an internal framework by which the person can arrange the massive, complicated interrelationships within a social structure and understand how they all interact with one another. A conscious Fe preference thus inclines a person toward viewing social networks as rational structures with internal logic, and certain social actions as leading to certain outcomes under certain contexts, as if it were a sort of logical puzzle or heuristic that the unconscious Ti would enjoy.

    If the Fi preference rejects anything about the Fe preference, it is the idea that things can or should be valued based on their context. Instead, things do have universal value that does not waver, regardless of circumstance. The Te preference would, in regard to that which appeals to the Fe preference, reject the idea that relationships and subjective context represent what is fundamentally important about our existence, maintaining that instead, these are mere aspects of the fundamentally greater logic and coherency that exists all throughout the universe, both within our existence and absent from it.

    You may, of course, disagree.
    /has had precisely the same thoughts. +1

  9. #339
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vasilisa View Post
    Hahaha no, not at all. Those are funny though. I don't take threads like that seriously (at least not anymore), and I've never had any complaints in real life. I just came into the thread to make the comment above to help Glycerine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glycerine View Post
    @Vasilisa I don't know. I just used to put so much credence into reciprocality, putting the group first (being highly considerate of others), reaching out to others, I kept getting burned so I pretty much said "screw it" to the world in that regard I did not like my sensitivity so I decided to push it down deep inside of me. My past life experiences added to it a lot too. I think if things were different I would have become a fairly friendly, open, emotionally expressive 2w3 ENFJ. People always seem shocked when I get animated about anything in real life.... they think I'm on drugs or something. LOL. Saying that, I have no regrets on how I turned out.
    I wonder what you would have been like if you were free and not having to hold anything in.

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    Goddamit, I'm very tempted to read that, but I usually can't stand @onemoretime's posts, and it's frickin long as hell...

    Everyone's sayin it's good, though...


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