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Thread: Fe Fakeness

  1. #241
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Something about this process suggests to me that perhaps there comes a time for, or there is a process that sees us one day actually, granting other people, in our own consciousness, the right to be different. I wonder how that works.
    LOL^.

    My first guess, in INFJs, and even ENFJs for that matter (while Ti is the inferior, it’s still the sidekick judging function), is that we need to be aware of how anything that initially ‘makes sense’ to us isn’t based on objective reality so much as it makes sense according to our own experience of the world. Ti isn’t really in any managerial position, it works for Fe. Our focus goes to people- and with Pi in the lead (N, no less), perception directed inward, we can’t help but ‘notice’ possible intentions and such behind other people’s words and actions. If we don’t realize that these things only make sense according to our own experience- and instead simply notice they ‘make sense’- then we jump to erroneous conclusions about why people have said or done certain things. It’s the stuff NFJ horror stories are made of: paranoia, projecting insecurities, refusing to believe people feel what they claim to feel, believing we know best what will make someone happy or sad or angry or whatever (like if someone tells us they’re angry at us, but the reason they give doesn’t ‘make sense’ because it isn’t something that makes us angry ourselves- assuming the person is wrong about why they’re angry), etc. When we can’t separate our experience from THE TRUTH ABOUT EVERYONE while making sense of others’ words and actions…..it’s a non-stop barrel of laughs for everyone involved. But (back to thread topic) I don’t think it has as much to do with whether or not we’re perceived as fake so much as whether or not we embrace shared reality. [If we genuinely believe a fake reality, is that being fake?]

    I don’t even know how to directly answer the op because there are too many ways to interpret ‘fake’.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

    5w4 sx/sp Johari / Nohari

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    Ti isn’t really in any managerial position, it works for Fe.
    Would you say that, in the posts of yours that I labeled among the "retarded" (for the view of the relationship between Te and Fi they propounded), it would be a reasonable interpretation that you were saying that Fi is in a managerial position for Te in TJs?

  3. #243
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Why do you ask?
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

    5w4 sx/sp Johari / Nohari

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    Because I said "response coming" a long time ago, and I have not gotten to it yet.

    It would seem the opportunity just presented itself to do so.

  5. #245
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    And because I believe you've contradicted yourself.

    Or at least demonstrated a blatant bias.

    Which was why I called it retarded in the first place.

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    This was the specific part that originally rubbed me the wrong way:

    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    ...but a thought process can not be ‘objectively objective’ (though I’ve noticed Te’ers are the most likely to kid themselves and believe so). Fi is right there, at least in the back seat, telling Te where to go- and the less a Te’er is willing to acknowledge that, the more annoying they are to deal with.

  7. #247
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Then you're reading what you want to in order to be right. Ti does the same thing for INFJs that Fi does for INTJs. The rest of that post above explains how Ti leads INFJs to horribly wrong conclusions as well. (Of course, that part doesn't make you right about anything so you probably missed it.)
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

    5w4 sx/sp Johari / Nohari

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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    Then you're reading what you want to in order to be right. Ti does the same thing for INFJs that Fi does for INTJs. The rest of that post above explains how Ti leads INFJs to horribly wrong conclusions as well. (Of course, that part doesn't make you right about anything so you probably missed it.)
    No, I took note of it.

    I actually liked your post.

    I just thought in your original post that you didn't do justice to the complexity of the relationship between Fi and Te.

    Nor did you pay respect to the difference between Fi being in the lead and Te being in the lead.

    I don't think I'm reading anything into what you wrote that's not already there.

    I think you seem to have made a claim about the relationship between Fi and Te (in TJs) that you said was not true of Ti and Fe (in FJs).

    It seems to be pretty clear in plain English:

    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    Ti isn’t really in any managerial position, it works for Fe.
    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    Fi is right there, at least in the back seat, telling Te where to go.
    Unless you want to say that this second quote isn't more-or-less equivalent to calling Fi Te's "manager".

    It would seem to me that they're close enough.

  9. #249
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    @Zarathustra

    How often can Te have an interest in something? I mean to say that what guides intuitions vision isn't Te, but Fi... Because it denotes value not how the vision is to be accomplished so in essence when a vision is being formed it serves as a rationalization of that vision. Te achieves the vision and I suppose from a Fe colored standpoint it is a belief that achieving your goal must require cohesion of ideas. Te probably finds that a nuisance, but it is also efficient enough to realize that Fi should be used so that their dream can be manifested smoothly.

    So I would say that the positioning of Te-Fi and Fe-Ti is of great disparity when not analyzed as a cohesive judging model.

  10. #250
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    What's so in-congruent about backseat driving, 'sidekick' and 'not managerial position'? Is it possible you just had a visceral reaction to the Te/Fi comment and you didn't have one to the Fe/Ti comment- so it seemed worse to you?

    My 'not managerial position' comment was in response to Kalach's comment:

    That the seemingly penetrating empathy and the search for harmony is sometimes diminished by a semi-conscious attachment to reason?


    LOL. That possibly sounds like I'm trying to be rude, but it's more or a reductio ad absurdum attempt. The seeming contradiction of a "faker" being driven around by unconscious attachment to truth suggests there is some... something... to talk about, the meaning of "authenticity" maybe.
    It was just a reminder that the 'Ti' in question was going to be slightly different than the usual description of Ti. I then went on to explain how it has a distinct influence.

    You might *FEEL* like "it's pretty clear in plain English", but I don't see a contradiction.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

    5w4 sx/sp Johari / Nohari

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