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Thread: Fe Fakeness

  1. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    Oh now i get it. this totally debunks everything i say, because someone says that kant is wrong and apparently kant had the same kind of ideas that i have .

    INTJ has shown his excellent reasoning skills yet again
    Don't worry - my INTP friend who has a PhD is a Kantian philosopher, and his level of academic rigor, impersonal detachment (um...he doesn't go around trying to make himself look smrt or put other people down about their intelligence), and general kindness beats the hell out of many of the NTs on this site who troll around boasting about their intelligence.

    Besides, Nietzche was a self-absorbed wacko.

  2. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by five View Post
    Right, so let tell you whats happened here. This whole forum lacks Se and Te and as a consequence this guy appears to be like that because he is the most "INTJ" here.

    Yes he is of course he is rational and objective, compared to an NF or SF, which he loves to argue with. Which is ironic because to me he seems subjective and overly emotional compared to me. I have seen this constantly in my debates over the years with NTP's.
    SFs aren't as dumb as we seem. I can tell that he's subjective and overly emotional, which is why I referred to the hilarious Ayn Rand disease...I also notice that he greatly enjoys putting down NFs and SFs cuz it makes him feel smrt.

    It's sort of like a big guy beating up on people who are physically smaller.

    It's also like saying "my talent beats all of your talents"...which gives me the image of a sculptor insulting the Bolshoi Ballet because they can't make statues like he can, while completely disregarding their dancing.

    And I agree with you that it does come off as rather ENTP-ish. I've actually asked him before if he was ENTJ because INTJ just seems a little off in some ways. But I'm not discounting the possibility that he's an INTJ who just has Ayn Rand disease. "I R OBJECTIVE! EVEN WHEN TALKING ABOUT NUDE MEN JUMPING INTO WATER! ART IS EVEN OBJECTIVE! I'M SO OBJECTIVE I'M GOING TO CALL MY OPINIONS OBJECTIVISM"...even while generations of people laugh about how she wasn't a real philosopher. I personally think she was projecting her issues from her childhood in Soviet Russia on to her beliefs rather than being truly objective by any stretch of the imagination. Oh, teddy, why has mommy given teddy to the poor children.

  3. #223
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    There's two different definitions of objective at play in this thread, one that means "without the distortion of emotion" and another that means "stipulates according to cues in the environment". The first is, for want of a better expression, a value, and is associated with introverted thinking. The second is (pretty much) the whole of the technical content of the claim that extroverted judgment is objective. (Looks outside to the objects, not inside to the subject.) That first definition is a value for Ti because--and here I'll launch into a possibly novel claim about the nature of cognition--there is no such thing as Ti without Fe.

    I mean to say that, literally, there is no cognition "Ti" without there being cognition "Fe". The two cannot exist alone. You cannot embark upon evaluation of environmental affect without some inner anchor of judgment that isn't tied to the environment. And I don't know how this is true just yet, nor exactly how to express it, particularly when it comes to trying to spell out "Fe" in real words that actually describe what kind of cognition happens (as opposed to say describing behavior). For the present I'll make do with evaluation, environment, stipulate, and so on. But in any case, this is not a requirement that you be conscious of both kinds of judgment. It's just the suggestion that one cannot occur without containing some aspect of the other.

    And this is great, right? Extroverted feeling, doing what it does and being all objective, calls upon a person to alter evaluation of data to accord with (changing) environmental stipulations and introverted thinking plods along regardless, removing the taint of emotion and building independent evaluation instead. That's a pleasant and useful dynamic balance right there, one set of evaluative processes pulling one way, another set pulling the other way, both ideally adding their strengths and resulting in a complex third judgment. Holla back, consciousness.

    So, in the end, to identify Fe as in general fake requires Ti as a system to tolerate untruth quite well. Does it? Naturally, there should be questions of the relative consciousness of the Fe and the Ti but, and you know what, I don't even know what this all means, it might even be something really simple.

    But not something about authenticity as determined by some other judgment system. Maybe just something about, pffft, whatever, I don't know, your mom.
    Yes, the functions are basically reflections of each other. This how I've put it on my pages in the discussion of functional differentiation:

    The opposite functional perspective [from the one we prefer] is always implicit in a situation, because when we look at it through a function and orientation, we are in essence dividing the situation that in complete form consists of both tangible [S] and conceptual [N], and technical [T] and humane [F] aspects, which both emerge [P] and vary [J], and can be stored or set in our memory.
    So if I pick out of a situation the technical and variable elements [T+P], then the humane and set elements [F+J] are implicit, in having basically been differentiated or set apart.

    (There's also the preferred function in the opposite attitude, and the opposite function in the preferred attitude, but these are not as immediately implicit, because they share one thing in common with the preferred perspective, and thus, not either wholly preferred, or wholly suppressed. Hence, they end up even further from consciousness).
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

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  4. #224
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    I'd even say that one adopts the reflected judging preference because of the need to compensate for the deficiencies presented by the stronger function preference.

  5. #225
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    You can't spell 'fake' without 'fe'!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    You spent 774 words to explain your conception of truth yet none of these 774 words is 'truth'. In the end, you did not explain it at all. Frankly, this does not strike me as particularly efficient.
    I wasn't explaining "truth". What gave you that impression? Nor was it a Magnus opus on how wonderful I am. I'm just stating my world view because you asked.

  7. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    You can't spell 'fake' without 'fe'!
    +1 for the Fi user.
    ENFP with kick*ss Te | 7w8 so | ♀

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    And I agree with you that it does come off as rather ENTP-ish. I've actually asked him before if he was ENTJ because INTJ just seems a little off in some ways. But I'm not discounting the possibility that he's an INTJ who just has Ayn Rand disease. "I R OBJECTIVE! EVEN WHEN TALKING ABOUT NUDE MEN JUMPING INTO WATER! ART IS EVEN OBJECTIVE! I'M SO OBJECTIVE I'M GOING TO CALL MY OPINIONS OBJECTIVISM"...even while generations of people laugh about how she wasn't a real philosopher. I personally think she was projecting her issues from her childhood in Soviet Russia on to her beliefs rather than being truly objective by any stretch of the imagination. Oh, teddy, why has mommy given teddy to the poor children.
    Indeed. You have Se (AKA common sense) and I can see that. You may not grasp the rational debate or be able to dominate that doesn't mean you don't have something to contribute.

    He comes across ENTP because he is one. You see the pattern because my Ni saw it. And BTW I was wrong at first. I actually emailed someone and said, "This guy is an INTJ". So I was dead wrong. I jumped to a conclusion. I can make mistakes, he was doing a good job emulating one though until I dug beneath the service. It's one of my biases, I tend to trust people too much and expect they operate with the same level of self scrutiny.

    Also he has gone all quiet now after a stiff appraisal. Surprise surprise. He is doubting his "INTJ"ness. I know their are others that doubt he is an INTJ, yet they don't speak up. Why? Because of Fe obviously. It's not polite. Duh.

    I have absolutely non-existent feelings around that. My only emotion is Fi and it's more like a passion. Passion for truth and accuracy, passion for efficiency, passion for building systems.

    No doubt as we speak Zarathustra mind is trying to reduce the cognitive dissonance by introducing a new counter attack. It's how mind viruses like religion perpetuate for so long. Whatever arguments people come up with against it, the mind creates new ones in defence. Also everyone here is too polite to go around correcting other people's perceptions of themselves.

    Even his username and profile pic reeks of trying too hard to be "INTJ". "Zarathustra" subtle?

    Furthermore he has to overcome the public embarrassment of not knowing his own type and being delusional, I am assuming he would find it embarrassing, I personally wouldn't but I think most would. But don't worry there are plenty of other "INTJ"'s here. Economica is not an INTJ either. In fact I haven't seen one yet. Maybe they can all get together and feel good and come up with a touchy feely way to dismiss my opinion and hence go back to "normal" thinking they all INTJ's.

    You know what we call creative sensitive INTJ's in the real world? ISFP's.

    I find it ironic that I get called too INTJ, then everyone else knows what an INTJ is, but the one guy calling everyone else out who actually is one.. he must just be deluded or have some hidden agenda. Sure. That make sense <sarcasm>

    Here's what's happened. There are "levels" of Fe around here so that:

    Lots of Fe = Fe
    Moderate Fe = "Fi"

    That's how he can explain away the fact he has Fe when he's not meant to as an INTJ.

    It's very dangerous to go typing on the internet because it's an information medium that is less infallible than real life. First get good in real life. Build up a warchest of typing skill and make sure you have an excellent feel for all the cognitives. THEN possibly go onto the internet and try typing people.

    It's much fucking harder.
    • You don't have context about anyone.
    • Hard to tell if they lying.
    • You can't see mannerism etc
    • So starting here online is just recipe for disaster.


    Also I don't type alone. Another bad idea.

    Make sure all cognitives are covered by the typing team to avoid cognitive biases creeping in. I type with an INTP and ENTJ.

    I can see the typing club around here lacks Ni Te.

  9. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by five View Post
    Indeed. You have Se (AKA common sense) and I can see that. You may not grasp the rational debate or be able to dominate that doesn't mean you don't have something to contribute.

    He comes across ENTP because he is one. You see the pattern because my Ni saw it. And BTW I was wrong at first. I actually emailed someone and said, "This guy is an INTJ". So I was dead wrong. I jumped to a conclusion. I can make mistakes, he was doing a good job emulating one though until I dug beneath the service. It's one of my biases, I tend to trust people too much and expect they operate with the same level of self scrutiny.

    Also he has gone all quiet now after a stiff appraisal. Surprise surprise. He is doubting his "INTJ"ness. I know their are others that doubt he is an INTJ, yet they don't speak up. Why? Because of Fe obviously. It's not polite. Duh.

    I have absolutely non-existent feelings around that. My only emotion is Fi and it's more like a passion. Passion for truth and accuracy, passion for efficiency, passion for building systems.

    No doubt as we speak Zarathustra mind is trying to reduce the cognitive dissonance by introducing a new counter attack. It's how mind viruses like religion perpetuate for so long. Whatever arguments people come up with against it, the mind creates new ones in defence. Also everyone here is too polite to go around correcting other people's perceptions of themselves.

    Even his username and profile pic reeks of trying too hard to be "INTJ". "Zarathustra" subtle?

    Furthermore he has to overcome the public embarrassment of not knowing his own type and being delusional, I am assuming he would find it embarrassing, I personally wouldn't but I think most would. But don't worry there are plenty of other "INTJ"'s here. Economica is not an INTJ either. In fact I haven't seen one yet. Maybe they can all get together and feel good and come up with a touchy feely way to dismiss my opinion and hence go back to "normal" thinking they all INTJ's.

    You know what we call creative sensitive INTJ's in the real world? ISFP's.

    I find it ironic that I get called too INTJ, then everyone else knows what an INTJ is, but the one guy calling everyone else out who actually is one.. he must just be deluded or have some hidden agenda. Sure. That make sense <sarcasm>

    It's so funny what's happened. There are "levels" of Fe around here so that:

    Lots of Fe = Fe
    Moderate Fe = "Fi"

    That's how he can explain away the fact he has Fe when he's not meant to as an INTJ.

    It's very dangerous to go typing on the internet because it's an information medium that is less infallible than real life. First get good in real life. Build up a warchest of typing skill and make sure you have an excellent feel for all the cognitives. THEN possibly go onto the internet and try typing people.

    It's much fucking harder.. You don't have context about anyone. Hard to tell if they lying. You can't see mannerism etc. So starting here online is just recipe for disaster.

    Also I don't type alone. Another bad idea.

    Make sure all coginitives are covered in your typing team to avoid coginitive biases creeping in. I type with an INTP and ENTJ.

    I can see the typing club around here lacks Ni Te.

    Simple.
    :yim_rolling_on_the_

  10. #230
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by five View Post
    I wasn't explaining "truth". What gave you that impression?
    You were asked to explain your conception of truth, then you quoted that request and wrote a response to it. Why you did indeed fail to explain your conception of truth I do not know.

    Quote Originally Posted by five View Post
    Nor was it a Magnus opus on how wonderful I am. I'm just stating my world view because you asked.
    I never asked for your world view.

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