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Thread: Fe Fakeness

  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Ne is not an "anchoring" function, it is Pe and thus an exploring function... unless you consider it anchoring to highlight and expose the full range of possibilities in a given situation.

    Then again, I could also say that Ne is connective and Ni is selective. Which is a kind of opposite flow of your pair above. Ne is finding commonality between two things, Ni is distinguishing between them.
    We are in agreement.

    You are using the correct Jungian terminalogy and I was using my Ni. Ni doesn't have a vocabulary, I make up words.

    Connective and exploring in my mind is very similar to divergent.
    Ni distinguishing means it lands on the "correct" one, it discards possibilities very quickly, hence it converges.

    I'll bow out now because I see language and precision is going to continue be an issue and the a Ne/Ni and Te/Ti divide here is very strong. There isn't a single Ni, Te or Te Ni in this thread with me.

    You guys are more skilled and adept at the intricacies of the theory. I can see that clearly, so me trying to pretend I'm on the same level as you is ludicrous and I won't go there.

  2. #202
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by five View Post
    We are in agreement.

    You are using the correct Jungian terminalogy and I was using my Ni. Ni doesn't have a vocabulary, I make up words.

    Connective and exploring in my mind is very similar to divergent.
    Ni distinguishing means it lands on the "correct" one, it discards possibilities very quickly, hence it converges.

    I'll bow out now because I see language and precision is going to continue be an issue and the Te/Ti divide here is very strong.

    You guys are more skilled and adept at the intricacies of the theory. I can see that clearly, so me trying to pretend I'm on the same level as you is ludicrous and I won't go there.
    Well, to be clear: I thought we were only talking "theory" in order to have a common language to discuss your point that one particular view of the world was much better than all the others because you knew it was "right."

    It wouldn't matter if we weren't using cog function language. I think a worldview that is obsessed with empiricism as the end-all, be-all is erroneous as well. So choose a language and we'll go from there.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Well, to be clear: I thought we were only talking "theory" in order to have a common language to discuss your point that one particular view of the world was much better than all the others because you knew it was "right."
    My world view is not the "best". I have never ever ever ever claimed that and it offends me that you are suggesting that. If I "act" like that, its your perception of my cognitives at work.

    I am boring, nihilistic, serious, rational and probably a very bland person compared to the wondorous world view of the NFP's. I truly love the imagination for example of JK Rowling (INFP) I'm currently watching the potter movies with my gf, her Ne is incredible.

    The only claim I make, and its not just me, just go see any description of an INTJ, is that the one meagre skill I do have it able to analyse and decode objective reality rather well and efficiently. If you don't want to grant me that then... Ok.

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by five View Post
    My world view is not the "best". I have never ever ever ever claimed that and it offends me that you are suggesting that. If I "act" like that, its your perception of my cognitives at work.
    Hmmm. Well, there must be some sort of language malfunction then, because I'm certainly not the only one who has expressed that opinion when interacting with you. In fact, it seems to be the dominant perception. So if you don't mean it, it would still seem like it's coming out that way to people of various type perspectives.

    The only claim I make, and its not just me, just go see any description of an INTJ, is that the one meagre skill I do have it able to analyse and decode objective reality rather well and efficiently. If you don't want to grant me that then... Ok.
    lol. You have completely changed your attitude/tone of voice in the last half hour or so.

    Yeah, I'll grant you that you have a skill that is useful -- you can analyze and explain rational process.
    But you haven't been talking about it on that meager level.

    Look, your skills are not my skills, but earlier in my life I went through phase where it was very important for me to "always be rational" so that no one could challenge my opinion and I would know I was always right. I remember arguing with people -- the ex, friends, acquaintances, people online -- about how as an INTP I was naturally "more objective" than they were because I thought through everything, analyzed it, understood the principles, didn't just make decisions from emotion or instinct but checked everything. It wasn't that I didn't have a point about INTP strengths, but that (1) I equated the INTP perspective with the way that EVERYONE should view and operate within the world, it was the ideal they always needed to live up to, and (2) I didn't properly recognize that my skills would not work within some key areas of life importance and that other skills would.

    Later, after I had had a change of heart and a realignment of my thinking (due to uncovering some inadequacies of my view), even my INTP best friend told me I had been insufferable and he was glad I had gotten my head out of my ass. I didn't have much to say about it at that point but to apologize. I also realized that I had been doing exactly what I hated when other perspectives (like Fe) saw my Ti concerns as negligible or irrelevant across the board, because I wasn't living up to THEIR views of what they thought reality was. Despite my vaunted "objectivity," I was the embodiment of the same arrogance i despised in others.

    You have a valuable skill, and it will serve you well.
    It is one valuable skill among many, and other skills will help you get an even fuller picture of the width and breadth of existence.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #205
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    And if you don't believe in objective reality. Try telling that to your child that is about to run across the road into oncoming traffic.

    "Oh it's just my opinion that there are cars." "Just my perspective on reality. etc". "Nothing exists outside our minds. etc." "It can't be known conclusively that there is traffic there. etc"

    I'm not saying you've gone that far, but that what's Zarathusthra was referring about the slippery slope into solliposism and absurdity.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solipsism

    Reality exists, whether we are alive or not. It's exceptionally arrogant for us Humans to think it even has anything to do with us from a cosmic perspective. We are but a blink of an eye on that scale. Gone forever and not a single trace of our existence will remain.

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by five View Post
    There isn't a single Ni, Te or Te Ni in this thread with me.
    Would an INTJ really require support from other people if the truth is on his side?

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    You have completely changed your attitude/tone of voice in the last half hour or so.
    Of course, I'm not self-unaware. I realized the tone or feeling channel was causing issues so I modified it slightly so as to proceed efficiently. Nothing about the logic of what I was saying has fundamentally changed at all.

    I have no issues with that as long as I'm consistently presenting a truthful accurate position. I don't mind expounding on my weaknesses for pages, if it makes people feel better and helps the conversation along.

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Would an INTJ really require support from other people if the truth is on his side?
    Nope not really. But not everyone is capable of knowing what is truth. Hence why you have the "delusion of crowds" eg religion.

    You also get subjective and objective truth.

  9. #209
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    Is "subjective truth" true at all?

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by senza_tema View Post
    Is "subjective truth" true at all?
    Yes of course. But it just means it's true to that individual.

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