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Thread: Fe Fakeness

  1. #111
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glycerine View Post
    Most of the descriptions of Fe make it sound rather shallow and Fi is so profound but I guess that could be said of the extroverted vs. introverted functions.
    *shrug*

    They both have different purposes. To say one purpose is stupid and another one important (as often seems to be done) is just short-sightedness. Each is useful in the right situation. I just think a lack of life experience + overreliance on intellectualism (rather than life engagement) results in these kind of oversights... fortunately something that life itself can remedy after enough time passes. Hey, it happened for me, so I guess it can work for anyone...

    Quote Originally Posted by five View Post
    Having said that, you are simply delusional (and others) who go around NOT acknowledging the rank of skills and authority that exists in society.

    Te does ranking, Ti does not.

    If for example my objectivity level is 97% and yours is 83% then I am more objective than you, even if you feel uncomfortable with that. Everything is becoming more and more quantifiable as time marches on.

    The zone of "mysteriousness" shrinks every single year. Can you not see that?

    NF's tend to be mystical because they do not have developed Te's.
    Hmmm. Well, theory would say that Fe and Te occupy the same "slots" so to speak -- both are Je auxiliaries. Therefore both should have equal treatement/applicability within their spheres of influence, correct? What do you mean by objectivity? I would daresay that Fe is much more objective where people's rights and privileges within a community are being observed than Te is, since Te treats people like machines and misses an entire aspect of their personhood, where Fe is actually evaluating things based on the rules appropriate to communities; Te is way out of its jurisdiction and unable to provide an appropriate response and is still trying to fit square blocks into round holes.

    Objectivity, my ass. Let's discuss quantitative vs qualitative if you'd like, but your post places a subjective bias in favor of Te, just like everyone else's posts tends to reflect the perspective approaches they favor.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #112
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by five View Post
    How is what you posted relevant to furthering the discussion and arriving at objective truth about a topic?
    I thought it was her way of ending the discussion.

  3. #113
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    ^ +1. Anyone who thinks they're being 100% objective, and that they've freed themselves from bias and subjectivity, is seriously kidding themselves.
    Objectivity is just an illusion, caused by the over rationalization of ones own subjective view.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

    Read

  4. #114
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Van der Hoop says that the Fi type is more aware of inner conflicts, conflicts with the self & the environment, and conflicts within others; but the Fe type is NOT always aware of all of these conflicts, or not to the same degree (While the Fe-type will repress, for the sake of harmony, things both in himself and in the external world which do not accord with his ideal, the Fi-type will remain more aware of such conflicts). The Fe type can be unaware that their expressed feeling does not match their inner feeling, thus appearing fake to others* (see below quote). The Fe type, however, does not FEEL fake because feeling to them is what is appropriate externally (Jung: "it has freed itself as fully as possible from the subjective factor, and has, instead, become wholly subordinated to the influence of the object."). The inner feeling is suppressed, and they remain unaware of any inner conflict (this is the reverse of how Fi types resist external influence on their Feeling). However, the Fi type IS aware of it in themselves & often in others if they get enough Pe data. So for those who get mad when an ENFP claims to see a feeling in you that you don't feel, maybe they're right! Take it up with Jung if you don't like it (get some INFJ to channel him for you ).
    I think the bolded really is the crux of the matter. 'Fakeness' is rather a misnomer for the broader issue that is being discussed. Rarely do you find people that are outright affected. Mostly the lack of 'authenticity' Fi users refer to is more in the sense of repression and denial of conflicting emotions (both external and internal). This is not really an attempt at dishonesty on behalf of the Fe-user (whatever the Fi-users may say) but an effort to establish stability and consistency within themselves and those around them. They choose the most suitable emotion to demonstrate (among the many that are felt) and withhold/suppress the rest for the sake of social cohesion and expediency. It's like emotional democracy. Unfortunately, Fi users feel this devalues the complexities of human emotion and denies a more essential truth.

    BTW Interesting quotes and references OA. Do you have those on tap?
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

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    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

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    Fe = subjective truth
    Fi = objective truth (more around the TJ Fi's though)

  6. #116
    Diving into Ni-space Crescent Fresh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    Fi is right there, at least in the back seat, telling Te where to go- and the less a Te’er is willing to acknowledge that, the more annoying they are to deal with. Not simply because it’s ‘rude’, but because it’s anti-dialogical (rendering discourse a moot point) and because they tend to believe they are asserting THE TRUTH AS IT SHOULD APPLY TO EVERYONE instead of what seems true to them (however ‘clearly’ they see it).
    Quote of the day, especially the bolded.

  7. #117
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by five View Post
    Fe = subjective truth
    Fi = objective truth (more around the TJ Fi's though)
    Not only is this definition vague but it hasn't been properly framed so that we know what orientation by which to read it; for example, in MBTI speak, Fe is actually "objective" because it is an extroverted function and thus dealing with raw data, as opposited to an internal judging function that is deemed "subjective" because it is primarily focused on experiences of (in)congruence within the individual vs the external world.

    I think Southern Kross's post right above yours explains the relationship between Fe and Fi much more clearly, exactly, and fairly.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #118
    Senior Member chris1207's Avatar
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    You distinguish yourself from others and them from each other. Fi is the source of racism, especially when accompanied by Si. Fi is merely the social counterpart of Te and to an extent I wouldn't call it social as it really has nothing to do with the way you relate to people directly. I don't care that NFP's were the ones that propelled the civil rights movement. The fact is they had to get over their own racist tendencies, so they had a starting point. Fe is not predisposed to thinking that way.

    Fe is the true voice of equality. It is a mechanism that promotes mutual cooperation. I'm not convinced that being an NFJ means you appeal to an externalized standard. Prove it.

    Fe is only fake when it exists for it's own sake. I know that as an Ni user I'm not always good at articulating what I'm feeling. Jackasses, I'm sure, would love to take a cognitive shortcut, anything to cut apart whatever they find objectionable about my emotionality.

    Without Fe, society would not exist period. I'd like to talk about Abraham Maslow and his hierarchy of needs. The fact is Fe is most developed function of them all in that system , sitting on the third tier. Fi is there too, but only as a counterbalance to Te, with Si, which exists in the 2nd tier, which concerns itself with self preservation and safety. Ti and Se have their origins in the bottom tier, concerned with dynamism and sexuality. Not sure where to put the N's...

  9. #119
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    ^

    I'm not sure if you're trolling or if you genuinely believe that nonsense...
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  10. #120
    Glycerine
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