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Thread: Fe Fakeness

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    To be honest, I've never found your posts interesting enough to read them in any level of detail and thus determine whether talking about how much you (and others) suck is representative of your style...
    With regards to our discussion earlier, this is an example of a post with plenty of Feeling information, but almost no Content information.

    I suppose another way of looking at it is T/F divide.

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    Quote Originally Posted by five View Post
    With regards to our discussion earlier, this is an example of a post with plenty of Feeling information, but almost no Content information.

    I suppose another way of looking at it is T/F divide.
    Oh no. I'm just telling the truth.
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  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    Oh no. I'm just telling the truth.
    I agree with you, that you are telling the truth, if we define the word "truth" on your own terms, and hence truth for you is subjective.

    Why should we care how you feel though?

    How is what you posted relevant to furthering the discussion and arriving at objective truth about a topic?

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    Quote Originally Posted by five View Post
    I agree you are if we define it on your own terms as truth for you is subjective.

    Why should we care how you feel?

    How is what you posted relevant to furthering the discussion and arriving at objective truth about a topic?
    What qualifies you to say that my entire view of truth is subjective? Who's to say that yours isn't? Why should I care about your views on truth?

    Saying that my view of truth is subjective is a subjective judgment.
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  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    What qualifies you to say that my entire view of truth is subjective? Who's to say that yours isn't? Why should I care about your views on truth?
    Nearly all discussions with INFJ's end in silly "me vs you" debates against my wishes to stay on topic. I'll admit I did question you, so you are reacting to that.

    However, I have no further interest in pursuing personal relations between us. Just like I am able to say with full confidence that an INFJ is more friendly and has better people skills than an INTJ, if you don't or can't see that an INTJ is more objective in reality than an INFJ is then that is your delusion to deal with.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by five View Post
    Nearly all discussions with INFJ's end in silly me vs you debates against my wishes to stay on topic.
    I would question how INTJs being insulting (as per my comments on Zara's comments earlier) help with staying on topic or getting closer to the objective truth.

    You haven't clarified that, nor have you told me why I should care about your views on truth, or explained to me how you're being objective while I'm being subjective.

    If you're basing the objective/subjective thing on the fact that I have INFJ posted as my type, you're being subjective as hell about your whole approach.


    EDIT: Personal relations? if this is your idea of "personal relations", you really don't know much about what INFJs are like. I assure you I'm not trying to befriend you or hit on you.
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  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    And it's easier to convince Te, btw, because it's objectively objective as opposed to objectively subjective.
    Yeah, I’m sorry, but there’s nothing ‘objectively objective’ about the human thought process. The product may have ‘objective’ status once it’s screened by enough people, but a thought process can not be ‘objectively objective’ (though I’ve noticed Te’ers are the most likely to kid themselves and believe so). Fi is right there, at least in the back seat, telling Te where to go- and the less a Te’er is willing to acknowledge that, the more annoying they are to deal with. Not simply because it’s ‘rude’, but because it’s anti-dialogical (rendering discourse a moot point) and because they tend to believe they are asserting THE TRUTH AS IT SHOULD APPLY TO EVERYONE instead of what seems true to them (however ‘clearly’ they see it).

    It seems to me like I’m hearing an argument that INTJs ‘work with details and get frustrated at having to incorporate feeling judgment into their reasoning’, having to take Fe rules into account while looking for ‘the truth’, like that’s the crux of the problem. But honestly, I think sometimes Te likes to fool itself and believe it’s objective- as if it’s possible to think without adding some element of feeling judgment- when it’s actually largely fueled by Fi agenda. This is most obvious when the points being made look irrational to everyone but the person making them (and anyone who happens to share a similar emo-charged sentiment). It isn’t that Te’ers aren’t willing to incorporate ‘feeling judgment’ so much as they aren’t willing to incorporate others’ feeling judgment- or any judgment that doesn’t already match their own- into a working common ‘truth’ base to build mutual understanding on. It’s a potential shortcoming of all Je dom & aux (in part, also, because perception is introverted- we're not as mercurial with external input). I don’t think the entire problem here is that the Fe’ers are expecting too much ‘politeness’ so much as they get frustrated with Te ‘misdirection’ back towards it’s own opinion over and over again. They are that in love with their own opinion sometimes. Reciprocally, it seems like Te’ers get frustrated when Fe’ers (but mostly Ti’ers, since Fe doms rarely get into these discussions) try to ‘misdirect’ them away from their isolated version of ‘objective truth’ (as Kalach put it in the other thread, “personalized objective truth”).



    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Yes, which is why, as Nicodemus pointed to in an earlier post, in real life, when things have real consequences, we don't use the same exact same approach as we would on an internet forum.
    This is peculiar, coming from someone who’s just done a lot of preaching about how the forum consequences are too severe. Is the issue that you believe forum consequences should be different from irl, and you’re aggravated that they’re not?
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  8. #108
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    ^ +1. Anyone who thinks they're being 100% objective, and that they've freed themselves from bias and subjectivity, is seriously kidding themselves.
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  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    ^ +1. Anyone who thinks they're being 100% objective, and that they've freed themselves from bias and subjectivity, is seriously kidding themselves.
    Agreed 100%.

    I have biases. For example I often forget others are not as rational or unemotional in their responses. I have to always remember to put other people's communications through a bias filter.

    Another bias INTJ's have is jumping to conclusions too quickly, or not taking into account current realities. (In recent years I've been working hard at my Se's to counter that)

    Having said that, you are simply delusional (and others) who go around NOT acknowledging the rank of skills and authority that exists in society.

    Te does ranking, Ti does not.

    If for example my objectivity level is 97% and yours is 83% then I am more objective than you, even if you feel uncomfortable with that. Everything is becoming more and more quantifiable as time marches on.

    The zone of "mysteriousness" shrinks every single year. Can you not see that?

    NF's tend to be mystical because they do not have developed Te's.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by five View Post
    Having said that, you are simply delusional (and others) who go around NOT acknowledging the rank of skills and authority that exists in society.

    Te does ranking, Ti does not.

    If for example my objectivity level is 97% and yours is 83% then I am more objective than you, even if you feel uncomfortable with that. Everything is becoming more and more quantifiable as time marches on.
    Ok. Why don't you tell me what this magical objectivity measure is? Is it a scale that you can stand on? How do you quantify it?

    I'll just say it: I think a lot of you people can talk the talk but you can't walk the walk. If you could walk the walk, you wouldn't resort to attempts at intellectual quantifying that don't exist, or to name-calling, or saying that you're not going to discuss this with me because I'm incapable of objectivity/Te because I'm an INFJ - or whatever it is.

    The fact that your type need to put others down to prove your point just tells me that objectively, you can't really prove your point and have got a lot less of a leg to stand on than you'd like to think you do.


    EDIT: By the way, you sure you're not an ESTJ? They seem the most obsessed with rank/social class in my experience.
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