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  1. #61
    Senior Member ICUP's Avatar
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    Have no idea what type he was....
    But I will say that this absolutely reeks of ISTP:

    "Jung stressed the importance of individual rights in a person's relation to the state and society. He saw that the state was treated as "a quasi-animate personality from whom everything is expected" but that this personality was "only camouflage for those individuals who know how to manipulate it",[31] and referred to the state as a form of slavery.[32][33][34][35] He also thought that the state "swallowed up [people's] religious forces",[36] and therefore that the state had "taken the place of God"—making it comparable to a religion in which "state slavery is a form of worship".[34] Jung observed that "stage acts of [the] state" are comparable to religious displays: "Brass bands, flags, banners, parades and monster demonstrations are no different in principle from ecclesiastical processions, cannonades and fire to scare off demons".[37] From Jung's perspective, this replacement of God with the state in a mass society led to the dislocation of the religious drive and resulted in the same fanaticism of the church-states of the Dark Ages—wherein the more the state is 'worshiped', the more freedom and morality are suppressed;[38] this ultimately leaves the individual psychically undeveloped with extreme feelings of marginalization.[39]"

    Maybe he was ISTP 5w6? Seems a possibility.
    ISTP 6w5 sx/sp
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  2. #62
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICUP View Post
    Have no idea what type he was....
    But I will say that this absolutely reeks of ISTP:

    "Jung stressed the importance of individual rights in a person's relation to the state and society. He saw that the state was treated as "a quasi-animate personality from whom everything is expected" but that this personality was "only camouflage for those individuals who know how to manipulate it",[31] and referred to the state as a form of slavery.[32][33][34][35] He also thought that the state "swallowed up [people's] religious forces",[36] and therefore that the state had "taken the place of God"—making it comparable to a religion in which "state slavery is a form of worship".[34] Jung observed that "stage acts of [the] state" are comparable to religious displays: "Brass bands, flags, banners, parades and monster demonstrations are no different in principle from ecclesiastical processions, cannonades and fire to scare off demons".[37] From Jung's perspective, this replacement of God with the state in a mass society led to the dislocation of the religious drive and resulted in the same fanaticism of the church-states of the Dark Ages—wherein the more the state is 'worshiped', the more freedom and morality are suppressed;[38] this ultimately leaves the individual psychically undeveloped with extreme feelings of marginalization.[39]"

    Maybe he was ISTP 5w6? Seems a possibility.
    Are you referring to the annoying numbers strewn throughout your wikipedia quote?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  3. #63
    Senior Member ICUP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    Are you referring to the annoying numbers strewn throughout your wikipedia quote?
    LoL, too busy thinking about the info to notice. Doesn't bother me.

    -------------

    Still, an uneducated guess would be intp for me.
    The mysticism is a little weird, but I have not studied him, and have no idea of what time/place he lived in.
    ISTP 6w5 sx/sp
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  4. #64
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    I've never completely made my mind. He might be more Ti-ish ultimately, but what I think is making people think INTJ is the apparent "dryness" of his language, which makes his "interaction style" seem "directive", rather than informative. So he seems like a Chart the Course, and since he is clearly INT, then it seems like INTJ.

    Another person who had this issue, and I know is INTP: our own Solitary Walker (who some suggested was INTJ way earlier in the "Mistyped Members" thread).
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
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  5. #65
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    I think he was an ISTP, he said so himself, and I'm quite certain he understood his own theory.

    As for Solitary Walker, he is TOTALLY INTP. No INTJ there, no sir.

  6. #66
    Senior Member ICUP's Avatar
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    Holy Shit.....

    http://marcbeneteau.com/2009/07/carl...g-and-purpose/

    This looks more like my writing. Except, of course, he is about a billion times more thoughtful and intelligent lmao. Who knows, though, since it is a translation, how he actually said it. Looks like an interesting book, nevertheless. I may pick up a couple of books.......

    "As a child I felt myself to be alone, and I am still, because I know things and must hint at things which others apparently know nothing of, and for the most part do not want to know."

    Good God, I can So relate to this.

    ---------

    Hmmm, thinking istp 5w6 sx/so? Seems possible.....


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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I think he was an ISTP, he said so himself, and I'm quite certain he understood his own theory.
    Any ideas where I can see where he said this? What book, or..... ?
    ISTP 6w5 sx/sp
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  7. #67
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    There were two types of intuition Jung referred to in German, and one was Einfall, the other Ahnung. Einfall (Fallen) was more akin to Ne, where conditions on the outside poured down like a rain into the consciousness, giving moments of revelatory insight. Jung more of the Ahnung type of intuitive, although you'd have to read between the lines a bit. His insights were borne from long periods of introversion, building models over time, not revelation. His sense of extroversion came afterwards. Like a man coming from down a mountain, finally able to find a means to apply it to the outside world. "The years when I was pursuing my inner images were the most important of my life - in them everything essential was decided. It all began then; the later details are only supplements and clarifications of the material that burst forth from the unconscious, and at first swamped me. It was the prima materia for a life's work." Einfall on the other hand is said to be more clear in consciousness right away.. while he had to work on clarifying his views first.

    So anyways, I think he was INTJ or INFJ.

  8. #68
    Senior Member ICUP's Avatar
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    "As a natural scientist, thinking and sensation were uppermost in me and intuition and feeling were in the unconscious and contaminated by the collective unconscious. You cannot get directly to the inferior function from the superior, it must always be via the auxiliary function. It is as though the unconscious were in such antagonism to the superior function that it allowed no direct attack. The process of working through auxiliary functions goes on somewhat as follows: Suppose you have sensation strongly developed but are not fanatical about it. Then you can admit about every situation a certain aura of possibilities; that is to say, you permit an intuitive element to come in. Sensation as an auxiliary function would allow intuition to exist. But inasmuch as sensation (in the example) is a partisan of the intellect, intuition sides with the feeling, here the inferior function. Therefore the intellect will not agree with intuition, in this case, and will vote for its exclusion. Intellect will not hold together sensation and intuition, rather it will separate them. Such a destructive attempt will be checked by feeling, which backs up intuition.

    "Looking at it the other way around, if you are an intuitive type, you can't get to your sensations directly. They are full of monsters, and so you have to go by way of your intellect or feeling, whichever is the auxiliary in the conscious. it needs very cool reasoning for such a man to keep himself down to reality. To sum up then, the way is from the superior to the auxiliary, from the latter to the function opposite to the auxiliary. Usually this first conflict that is aroused between the auxiliary function in the conscious and its opposite function in the unconscious is the fight that takes place in analysis. This may be called the preliminary conflict. The knock-down battle between the superior and inferior functions only takes place in life. In the example of the intellectual sensation type, I suggested the preliminary conflict would be between sensation and intuition, and the final fight between intellect and feeling."

    Supposedly from Analytical Psychology
    So, I suppose that does settle it. He's a 5. ISTP 5 sx/so. Explains it all quite well.
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  9. #69
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICUP View Post
    Supposedly from Analytical Psychology
    So, I suppose that does settle it. He's a 5. ISTP 5 sx/so. Explains it all quite well.
    Which I'm pretty sure that was published long before he gave this quote from the interview posted earlier in the thread (when he was 80+ yrs old), which suggests his sensing preference was not very strong:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jung on his Psychological Type
    Well, you see, the type is nothing static. It changes in the course of life. But I most certainly was characterized by thinking. I overthought from early childhood on. And I had a great deal of intuition, too. And I had definite difficulty with feeling. And my relation to reality was not particularly brilliant. I was often at variance with the reality of things. Now that gives you all the necessary data for the diagnosis.
    It seems that Jung changed his mind on his type (because he did not view type as static) and/or people are interpreting these quotes to suit their view, which is often to make him their type. The other quotes you used ICUP don't strike me as ISTP in particular. I can relate to the reasoning in those myself, and I don't think Jung is INFP at all.

    What I'm getting from this is that he felt he was a Thinking type when young and then became an iNtuitive type as his iNtuition took over (which had always been strong though).

    If people are arguing heavy use of the tertiary characterizing him (saying he was Ti-Ni or Ni-Ti), then you could also argue that when he made the quote about sensing he was Ti-Si, then as his iNtuition "grew" he came to use Ne more. There's no reason to assume the sensing he used was Se.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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  10. #70
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICUP View Post
    "As a natural scientist, thinking and sensation were uppermost in me and intuition and feeling were in the unconscious and contaminated by the collective unconscious. You cannot get directly to the inferior function from the superior, it must always be via the auxiliary function. It is as though the unconscious were in such antagonism to the superior function that it allowed no direct attack. The process of working through auxiliary functions goes on somewhat as follows: Suppose you have sensation strongly developed but are not fanatical about it. Then you can admit about every situation a certain aura of possibilities; that is to say, you permit an intuitive element to come in. Sensation as an auxiliary function would allow intuition to exist. But inasmuch as sensation (in the example) is a partisan of the intellect, intuition sides with the feeling, here the inferior function. Therefore the intellect will not agree with intuition, in this case, and will vote for its exclusion. Intellect will not hold together sensation and intuition, rather it will separate them. Such a destructive attempt will be checked by feeling, which backs up intuition.

    "Looking at it the other way around, if you are an intuitive type, you can't get to your sensations directly. They are full of monsters, and so you have to go by way of your intellect or feeling, whichever is the auxiliary in the conscious. it needs very cool reasoning for such a man to keep himself down to reality. To sum up then, the way is from the superior to the auxiliary, from the latter to the function opposite to the auxiliary. Usually this first conflict that is aroused between the auxiliary function in the conscious and its opposite function in the unconscious is the fight that takes place in analysis. This may be called the preliminary conflict. The knock-down battle between the superior and inferior functions only takes place in life. In the example of the intellectual sensation type, I suggested the preliminary conflict would be between sensation and intuition, and the final fight between intellect and feeling."

    Supposedly from Analytical Psychology
    So, I suppose that does settle it. He's a 5. ISTP 5 sx/so. Explains it all quite well.
    ISTP is very interesting actually. I wouldn't necessarily rule it out now.

    His words make me wonder how far removed I am from that myself. I know many around here consider me a "sensor", but I see those "monsters" from sensation that he mentions (although I might need some clarifying on what he means exactly).

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