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  1. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    The theory of gravity is amoral: it is true (mostly) regardless of one's morality. Therefore astrophysicists are narcissists?

    Morality deals with the relationship between persons. Neither gravity nor astrophysicists have much bearing on the relationship between persons.

    However mbti purports to improve relationships between persons, while at the same time being amoral as gravity.

    So we can't have it both ways. We can't improve our relationships with persons by following an amoral cult.

    Of course the amorality of mbti appeals to narcissists and acts as a cover for their manipulation of persons.

  2. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by reckful View Post
    So, reading between the lines, are you suggesting you think Jung was an INTP?
    Reading between the lines is always interesting, but in this case I think there are more important things about Carl Jung than his imaginary personality.

  3. #333
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Morality deals with the relationship between persons. Neither gravity nor astrophysicists have much bearing on the relationship between persons.

    However mbti purports to improve relationships between persons, while at the same time being amoral as gravity.

    So we can't have it both ways. We can't improve our relationships with persons by following an amoral cult.

    Of course the amorality of mbti appeals to narcissists and acts as a cover for their manipulation of persons.


    OK, so let's consider psychology. Is psychology moral, immoral or amoral? Does it appeal to narcissists, too?
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  4. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post


    OK, so let's consider psychology. Is psychology moral, immoral or amoral? Does it appeal to narcissists, too?
    The first rule of psychology is do no harm.

    Do no harm is a moral injunction.

    And it is a moral injunction about relations between persons.

    Narcissism has very little interest in moral relations between persons. It is mainly interested in how to successfully manipulate persons.

    However narcissists need a cover for their immorality, and that cover is the amoral mbti.

  5. #335
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    The first rule of psychology is do no harm.

    Do no harm is a moral injunction.

    And it is a moral injunction about relations between persons.

    Narcissism has very little interest in moral relations between persons. It is mainly interested in how to successfully manipulate persons.

    However narcissists need a cover for their immorality, and that cover is the amoral mbti.
    Ah, OK. I just wanted to be sure that you get to make up rules to justify your assertions. Thanks!
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  6. #336

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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    "We then discover that no individual is simply introverted or extraverted, but that he is so in one of his functions." -psychological types p.903 page 519 appendix 4 papers on psychological typology, the 1923 paper, these papers arent in older versions of the book.

    I can see that there is no concrete words where jung says that dfferentiated functions take the I/E of dominant function, but this quote is clearly against it..
    The first few times I read that quote I interpreted as people are not simply introverts or extraverts, but flavors of. Kind of like ice cream is not just ice cream but vanillla ice cream, chocolate ice cream, etc. It is only after reading it again more literally did I notice that you could interpret the quote as saying that an individual is literally introverted or extraverted in only the one function. I'm not so certain of that interpretation.

    A few paragraphs later (p908)--"Apart from the qualities I have mentioned, the undeveloped functions possess the further peculiarity that, when the conscious attitude is introverted, they are extraverted and vice versa."--again suggests that if you were to develop/differentiate the auxiliary into the conscious attitude, it would have an introverted character if the conscious attitude is introverted, since the undeveloped functions in the unconscious attitude have an extraverted character.
    Facetious Frank

  7. #337
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    I would read that as "Everyone is both introverted and extroverted. The flavor of the introversion/extroversion depends on the function." The overall tendency of introversion extroversion, therefore, would depend on which function is dominant.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  8. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paladin-X View Post
    A few paragraphs later (p908)--"Apart from the qualities I have mentioned, the undeveloped functions possess the further peculiarity that, when the conscious attitude is introverted, they are extraverted and vice versa."--again suggests that if you were to develop/differentiate the auxiliary into the conscious attitude, it would have an introverted character if the conscious attitude is introverted, since the undeveloped functions in the unconscious attitude have an extraverted character.
    Why does this sound like jargon?

  9. #339

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Why does this sound like jargon?
    Aren't all words and terms until you understand their meaning?
    Facetious Frank

  10. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paladin-X View Post
    Aren't all words and terms until you understand their meaning?
    The purpose of jargon is to conceal meaning.

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